...
Reproductive Health Bill - Full text: http://2010presidentiables.wordpress.com/reproductive-health-bill-5043/text-of-rh-bill-no-5043/ (http://2010presidentiables.wordpress.com/reproductive-health-bill-5043/text-of-rh-bill-no-5043/)
One Controversial Section:
QuoteContraceptives as Essential Medicines. – Hormonal contraceptives, intrauterine devices, injectables and other allied reproductive health products and supplies shall be considered under the category of essential medicines and supplies which shall form part of the National Drug Formulary and the same shall be included in the regular purchase of essential medicines and supplies of all national and lord hospitals and other government health units.
While there is general agreement about its provisions on maternal and child health, there is great debate on its key proposal that the Filipino taxpayer and the private sector will fund and undertake widespread distribution of family planning devices such as birth control pills (BCPs) and IUDs, as the government continues to disseminate information on their use through all health care centers. Private companies and the public and private elementary and secondary school system will be required to participate in this information and product dissemination as a way of controlling the population of the Philippines. As we all know the Church is against artificial contraceptives as "they prevent life." The Church has been its staunch critic ever.
Recently, Pope Benedict XVI said that he doesn't oppose the use of condom to prevent AIDS. He also cites the example of the use of condoms by prostitutes as "a first step toward moralization," even though condoms are "not really the way to deal with the evil of HIV infection."
After the Pope first mentions that the use of condoms could be justified in certain limited cases, such as by prostitutes, Seewald asks: "Are you saying, then, that the Catholic Church is actually not opposed in principle to the use of condoms?"
The Pope answers: "She of course does not regard it as a real or moral solution, but, in this or that case, there can be nonetheless, in the intention of reducing the risk of infection, a first step in a movement toward a different way, a more human way, of living sexuality."
P-Noy:
President Aquino has stated that he gives full support to a firm population policy, educating parents to be responsible, providing contraceptives to those who ask for them, but he refuses to promote contraceptive use. He said that his position "is more aptly called responsible parenthood rather than reproductive health."
In September 2010, Aquino during this visit to the US reiterated his stand that he is in favor of responsible parenthood and respects the decision of each couple as to the number of children they want, and if they need the government support for contraception, then the government will provide it. This statement has created a furor as Catholic church leaders say that Aquino has sold out the Filipino soul in exchange for some "measly" aid from the United States. The President of the Catholic Bishops Conference said that there can possibly be an excommunication of the President if he continues on with his stance. Pro RH Bill Senators encouraged the President to be steadfast to do his duties towards the state. The President's spokesperson Edwin Lacierda explained that the President "has not changed his stand" and is reaching out to the prelates and said that the President himself has not made any decision in support of the Reproductive Health Bill as he is still studying the document. Lacierda said that the Executive Branch "is not involved in the passage of the RH bill, saying the measure's fate rests solely on the legislative branch."
[-Some excerpts from wiki, inquirer.net]
ako, yes ako sa RH bill
Of course, YES. :-)
no in some aspects
^ pa-elaborate sir. ;)
yes..
yes
yeah, baby!
nope
Quote from: Mr.Yos0 on November 25, 2010, 12:44:48 AM
^ pa-elaborate sir. ;)
no sa Rh bill kasi ang weaknesses ng iilang tao is not an excuse para maging batas sa maraming tao...i think we have to deal each situations on a case to case basis
Yes to RH bill let's give everyone an opportunity to choose and decide what they wanted for their lives
actually the government decides for the people na sa rh bill... you have to follow or else...
^ parang wala akong nabasa na ganun. care to point that out?
pag batas na to you have no choice but to obey since its the law na di ba
I dont think so sa or else...ang dami nating batas at ang daming sumusuway pero di nman napaparusahan
Yes we have to obey when it becomes a law. Pero wala naman sa bill na it will impose anything or decide anything for the people, like people should use condom or contraceptive or should have only two children. Actually ang sinabi nga sa bill is people should be free to choose between natural or artificial methods, and the state should make these methods accessible to the people.
yes.
okidok
yes to RH bill!
over population has been a problem a hundred years ago ... why not making it a problem now.... bahala sila kung gusto nila mag anak ng marami as long as wag nila ipasa sa iba ang pagbuhay dito i mean just be responsible kahit ilan pa anak mo.. work harder and be happy... still no to rh bill... hahah ang tapang e no... dami ko kaaway dito ...
panu kung di responsable ung tao so kailangan may mag implement ng batas para umayos sila
that's the cost of democracy
i feel that filipinos need to be ruled by an iron hand, para umayos at tumino mga tao. note i am not saying that the people must be oppressed, which is a totally different matter.
maybe they should implement a "soft" two-child policy. may scholarship or government assistance yung first two children, after that wala na benefits
magandang suggestions yan...kaso nga ngayon lahat ng benefits wala kaya yung tao di rin makita ang kagandahang dulot ng konti anak parang pareho lang... katwiran nila hirap pa din at mabubuhay din naman... tsktsk
OT
sometimes you'll wonder: bakit yung mga mahihirap pa ang walang tigil sa panganganak, kahit baon na sa mga utang; walang paki sa buhay at ayaw magtrabaho; alcohol, gambling, drugs...
well, they say adding something bad to an already hard life won't make life much harder. parang kotse daw yun, kapag luma and marami ng scratches and dents ang kotse mo, wala ka nang paki kung madagdagan pa ng scratches or dents yun
Quote from: carpediem on December 08, 2010, 12:25:03 AM
i feel that filipinos need to be ruled by an iron hand, para umayos at tumino mga tao. note i am not saying that the people must be oppressed, which is a totally different matter.
i also feel the same way. Sa pag-unlad ng bayan, disiplina ang kailangan. - Kay Macoy yata galing yan..
There's nothing evil about condom use. MOST protestant churches would definitely approve of the RH Bill. However, we do not impose on each of the protestants to say yes to RH Bill.
Despite being a catholic myself, I also find them getting annoying. I would want them to only fulfill their roles for us, that is - to preach all the Good News – and not commenting (and using their influence on State) on issues that are beyond their concern (and maybe their lack of knowledge thereof).
religious ang mga pilipino. ganun ata talaga ang nasakop na bansa.
Quote from: Mr.Yos0 on December 09, 2010, 06:34:25 PM
Despite being a catholic myself, I also find them getting annoying. I would want them to only fulfill their roles for us, that is - to preach all the Good News – and not commenting (and using their influence on State) on issues that are beyond their concern (and maybe lack of knowledge thereof).
agree and they sometimes use the avenue of the church to say what they have to say on national issue.. we go to church to hear the Word of GOd and for us to think about it...their obligation is to preach and teach us what is good
Quote from: Kilo 1000 on December 08, 2010, 05:55:59 PM
Quote from: joshgroban on December 07, 2010, 11:24:01 PM
over population has been a problem a hundred years ago ... why not making it a problem now.... bahala sila kung gusto nila mag anak ng marami as long as wag nila ipasa sa iba ang pagbuhay dito i mean just be responsible kahit ilan pa anak mo.. work harder and be happy... still no to rh bill... hahah ang tapang e no... dami ko kaaway dito ...
Overpopulation is the root of a lot of problems.
We have altered the ecosystem because of the huge demand for resources
Food - Causing destruction of huge ecosystems to form farmlands just to sustain the higher population
Further destruction of land is made to form subdivisions and urban areas to sustain the growth at the cost of reduction of wildlife.
Gas - Leading to huge amount of traffic, high demand for cars which in turn produces a lot of carbon emissions which in turn has caused climate change.
Work - scarcity of work here in the philippines forces a lot of Filipinos to migrate abroad to look for work
Overcrowding - because of poverty in the philippines leads to higher spread of disease
War- because of lack of resources a lot of people are fighting over land.
Quote from: carpediem on December 08, 2010, 12:43:11 AM
OT
sometimes you'll wonder: bakit yung mga mahihirap pa ang walang tigil sa panganganak, kahit baon na sa mga utang; walang paki sa buhay at ayaw magtrabaho; alcohol, gambling, drugs...
This is the very question we ask our OBGYN service ward Patients for multiparous women. Bakit ang dami anak?
Very simple... pinakamadaling, libre at accessible na libangan ng husband at wife. Hinde daw mapigilan kasi wala na silang magawang iba.
Case in point: Most guys will masturbate and look for sex out of boredom. (see masturbation threads for reference).
Only a minority would have many children because they're looking for a their unico hijo or hija.
majority of them would like at most 3 children. Given the opportunity if they can afford it, they would like some form of contraception. At tsaka, karamihan ng mga mahihirap, hinde alam paano gumamit ng condom OR ayaw gumamit ng condom kasi "BAWAL SA SIMBAHAN". But the average poor family would go around 6-7 kasi walang form of family planning.
kung overpopulation ang problema bat kaya inutos pa sa genesis ...to multiply and fill the earth and subdue it... bago pa natin naisip i think God knows that this earth is capable to handle His creation and be inhabited by it
The bible then was made by only one God... he never changed....never will... para kasing may fear tayo sa over population samantalang ang problema naman talaga e yung mga utak ng tao ... we have to renew our minds ... kawawa talaga ang maraming anak at walang maayos na trabaho these days pero ingat din tayo di kaya selfishness ang iba nating reason kaya ayaw nating mag anak... yung tipong mapipilitan tayong kumayod ng husto ... yung comfort zone at time natin masasagasaan.. thats why The Lord says treat your children as a blessing... meaning they are gift from God... i have nothing against naman talaga sa RH bill ... but as others have said di naman talaga sinusunod ang batas kahit meron so babalik at babalik tayo sa personal na buhay ng bawat isa ... we will all be accountable to God someday...
YES.
YES.
YES.
peace ..... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Yes for me. Kasi kawawa naman yung mga anak na mahihirap ang magulang. Di sila nabibigyan ng tamang concern ng magulang nila. Ang worst case pa may mga parents na pinagtatrabaho yung mga anak nila kabata bata. At chaka sobrang laki na ng population natin 70% is poor.
after reading Josh's thought's napagisip ako na may point sya. :)
But this applies to those people who base their life according to the word of GOD. but people nowadays ay hindi na isinasabuhay ang salita ng Diyos.
Ngayon ko lang nabasa. Hehehe. May sasabihin ako dito. Maya na pag-uwi ko sa bahay kasi naka-mobile lang ako. Hehe.
Quote from: maykel on December 23, 2010, 03:51:58 PM
after reading Josh's thought's napagisip ako na may point sya. :)
But this applies to those people who base their life according to the word of GOD. but people nowadays ay hindi na isinasabuhay ang salita ng Diyos.
tsk tsk thats the sad part of it... but theres still hope
Quote from: ctan on December 23, 2010, 07:33:23 PM
Ngayon ko lang nabasa. Hehehe. May sasabihin ako dito. Maya na pag-uwi ko sa bahay kasi naka-mobile lang ako. Hehe.
anu doc?
27th na?
di ka parin naka uwi?
hahaha nakatulog
Yup, dito pa ako ospital! Hehehe!
Quote from: Jon on December 27, 2010, 03:40:07 AM
Quote from: ctan on December 23, 2010, 07:33:23 PM
Ngayon ko lang nabasa. Hehehe. May sasabihin ako dito. Maya na pag-uwi ko sa bahay kasi naka-mobile lang ako. Hehe.
anu doc?
27th na?
di ka parin naka uwi?
Oo nga naman doc. ano po ba yung sasabihin mo?
Quote from: joshgroban on December 24, 2010, 07:15:50 PM
tsk tsk thats the sad part of it... but theres still hope
Yes. may hope pa nga... :)
Wala pa rin ako sa bahay. Hahaha. Anyway, dito na nga sa mobile. :-)
Although I agree with joshgroban about warnings against selfishness, about renewing of the mind, etc., at some point I disagree with him about the assertion that overpopulation is not a problem. :-)
Overpopulation is a major problem, not just in the Philippines but to many countries all over the world as well like India and China. Epidemiological data alone proves the urgency to address this problem.
- "The world population is currently growing by 74 million people per year - the equivalent of a city size of San Francisco every three days" - World Population Infographic
- "Though more than 2/3 of the planet is covered with water, only a small fraction - around 0.3% - is available for human use and reuse. And no more of this renewable fresh water is available today than existed at the dawn of human civilization." - World Overpopulation Awareness
With overpopulation comes a cascade of other problems like overconsumption, exploitation, pollution, etc (WOA, 2010). I personally would like to add the obvious which is poverty. So you see, in this matter alone, overpopulation has become a problem. Ok lang sana if resources aren't scarce. But all people are sharing a small portion of the earth that's land-laden.
Throughout recent history and events, a lot of people have realized this problem. To control the massive problem of pollution, exploitation, overconsumption, etc. has become a very difficult task as to begin with, these problems are huge. Though not impossible to do, but with the urgency of the problem posed by overpopulation, there has to be done something that can be hoped as effective and plausible. As we say, change starts from within. I would like to apply this cliche to address this problem. To make a solution out of these seemingly impossible situations, the grassroots must be involved. The people themselves who create overpopulation should be involved. And then the reproductive health care facilities come into place. According to the WHO (World Health Organization), approximately 150 million couples in the world want, but do not have, access to reproductive health care facilities. This goes to show that a lot of people realize what steps are needed to be done in order to help address this issue.
About what the Bible says, I agree that when God said to Adam and Eve, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.", I believe that God was telling them that the world should be populated by those who know Him and who serve wisely as His representatives. However, in Genesis 3, we see sin enter into the lives of human beings and from that day, the world has become imperfect. The evil uses to which people have put their dominion come as a result of sin. The command God said that men are to make the earth's resources beneficial for themselves. It provides a foundation for wise scientific and technological developments. However, it is not a mandate to exploit the earth and its creatures to satisfy human greed, for the fact that Adam and Eve were "in the image of God". This implies God's expectation that we, human beings, are to use the earth wisely and govern it with the same sense of responsibility and care that God has toward the whole of His creation. We are stewards of the earth, and we are to guard it.
Having determined overpopulation to be a problem, it must be addressed. With reproductive health care supervised with responsible men and women, this could help solve the pressing issue.
When I see our charity patients, talagang napapaisip ako na dapat may RH bill na na-aprub...
Quote from: Kilo 1000 on January 09, 2011, 11:34:14 PM
Quote from: ctan on January 09, 2011, 11:28:35 PM
When I see our charity patients, talagang napapaisip ako na dapat may RH bill na na-aprub...
paano pa kaya sa charity patients namin...
oo nga. pero yung charity sa amin, most of them talagang pang-charity naman talaga. hehe. although meron din talaga ibang wa-is na nagpapacharity kahit may kaya naman. :-)
Quote from: ctan on January 09, 2011, 11:36:51 PM
Quote from: Kilo 1000 on January 09, 2011, 11:34:14 PM
Quote from: ctan on January 09, 2011, 11:28:35 PM
When I see our charity patients, talagang napapaisip ako na dapat may RH bill na na-aprub...
paano pa kaya sa charity patients namin...
oo nga. pero yung charity sa amin, most of them talagang pang-charity naman talaga. hehe. although meron din talaga ibang wa-is na nagpapacharity kahit may kaya naman. :-)
one hundred years ago poroblema na rin daw ang over population... di kaya nasa deterioration ng tao ang problema ... mas lalong sumasama ang tao
Quote from: joshgroban on January 10, 2011, 04:30:39 PM
Quote from: ctan on January 09, 2011, 11:36:51 PM
Quote from: Kilo 1000 on January 09, 2011, 11:34:14 PM
Quote from: ctan on January 09, 2011, 11:28:35 PM
When I see our charity patients, talagang napapaisip ako na dapat may RH bill na na-aprub...
paano pa kaya sa charity patients namin...
oo nga. pero yung charity sa amin, most of them talagang pang-charity naman talaga. hehe. although meron din talaga ibang wa-is na nagpapacharity kahit may kaya naman. :-)
one hundred years ago poroblema na rin daw ang over population... di kaya nasa deterioration ng tao ang problema ... mas lalong sumasama ang tao
when evil entered the world, masama na talaga bro. consequence na rin ang paghihirap sa kasamaan ng tao. ang overpopulation, hindi lang kahirapang financial ang dulot, mahirap na rin ang congestion.
healthwise, the more congested a place, the easier is a communicable disease transmitted. that 's just one among a long list of problems of overpopulation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZVOU5bfHrMimagine as the size of texas people all over the world can live there with a yard and kids
^ His claim that the whole population of the earth can live in a land mass the size of Texas needs data. He should show the computation.
Granted, why humanity still managed to sustain itself despite the explosive growth of population through the years is because of the scientific and technological advancements. If innovation had stopped, humanity would have had to resort to wars in order to put the population in check, and to curb overconsumption of resources. If not, nature would do the necessary thing (e.g. famine, drought, epidemic, etc.).
Why the world population have decreased today is because of the concerted efforts of governments and organizations to control the population and raise awareness. For example the one-child policy of China, the low or negative birth rates of Japan, Singapore, etc.
Here in the Philippines, this is not the case. It's okay if people have enough food, are given proper health care, education, and jobs. Do we even have people that are productive, that can innovate, and contribute to science and technology that could help sustain ourselves?
Aside from carpediem's thoughts, I'd like to add that what the problem of overpopulation is concerned about is the availability of "live-able" land that all human beings share...
Quote from: ctan on January 09, 2011, 11:28:35 PM
When I see our charity patients, talagang napapaisip ako na dapat may RH bill na na-aprub...
when i see charity patients... i see the big difference between rich and poor... :(
Quote from: judE_Law on January 14, 2011, 12:41:48 PM
Quote from: ctan on January 09, 2011, 11:28:35 PM
When I see our charity patients, talagang napapaisip ako na dapat may RH bill na na-aprub...
when i see charity patients... i see the big difference between rich and poor... :(
isa rin yan sa consequence ng overpopulation eh... however, i could not deny that this is a sad fact. we all want something that would benefit all. egalitarianism comes into mind when we don't want social stratification to happen. but practically, it's not beneficial to all too.
I think many of those that are anti-RH are just derailing the discussion with technicalities.
http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2011/01/18/read-em-and-weep-statements-made-at-the-faces-of-the-rh-bill-forum/
Quote from: Kilo 1000 on January 31, 2011, 12:38:13 AM
wow.. i just read the article. I don't know where the information from the anti RH bill people are getting pero grabe yung sweeping statements. Its disheartening to see a doctor making such statements.
I know right? Sana naman kung magdedebate sila magpresent naman sila ng facts, and stop spreading lies that deceive the public. Sadly, the uneducated masses are susceptible to deception because the lies are usually sensational.
my stand remains...rh bill is not the answer sa sinasabing over population....or poverty.... as long as may mga greedy na tao at kurakot...the problem still remains...befrore 20 yrs ago ilan ang anak ng mga ninuno natin lahat halos lumalagpas sa 5.... ahere are they today... di naman sila naghirap... nagingmas responsable silang mamamayan.... nasa mind set pa rin yan...
^ Wow, kailangan talaga i-mention pa yung EDSA I. I can't help but feel that it is a hint that they are threatening the government with civil disobedience should the RH Bill be passed. Well, karma na rin siguro for PNoy, kasi nagthreaten din siya dati during the elections.
RH Bill in danger: CBCP attacks, Malacanang retreats (http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2011/02/07/rh-bill-in-danger-cbcp-attacks-malacanang-retreats/)
Retarded president doesn't have the balls.
Nakakainis talaga. >:(
So ganun na ba tayo, if we don't like something, just threaten civil disobedience and hit the streets? Para saan pa ang Constitution? Ano silbi ng government?
Ironically, eto yung sinabi ni Cardinal Rosales nung nagthreaten si PNoy ng sarili niyang civil disobedience before the elections:
"No. For heaven's sake, there is the Constitution. All these are covered by provisions of the Constitution. If there are complaints, credible, you go to the Comelec, you go (to) Congress, because you still have that," he said.
Rosales lamented that Filipinos were always in a hurry, which was why, he said, they had failed to develop into a better people and tended to call for people power easily.
"We are always in a hurry," he said. "We forget to grow in citizenship and to develop a real credible nation. To reach a stage where we mature as a nation and also [as a] people will take time."
A Woman's Letter to the Bishops:
Risa Hontiveros' response to the Pastoral Letter of the CBCP on the Reproductive Health Bill
13 February 2011
Dear Bishop Nereo P. Odchimar,
Peace!
I will not respond to all the points raised in the Pastoral Letter of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of the Philippines which you sent us, your Filipino brothers and sisters, last 30 January. Most of them are old points that have been raised and clarified repeatedly in so many debates and too few dialogues in the past decade, though it drives me almost to tears that it seems the good Bishops have not been listening intently or understanding with empathy.
I would like to respond to just two points.
In the section, Moral Choices at the Crossroads – at EDSA I and Now, you wrote that "Twenty five years ago in 1986 we Catholic Bishops made a prophetic and moral judgement on political leadership.... Today we come to a new national crossroads and we now have to make a similar moral choice."
As one of the young people then who went in our multitudes to EDSA when Minister Enrile and General Ramos admitted that Marcos had stolen the election from Cory Aquino and when Cardinal Sin rallied us to protect them from Marcos's forces, I will always remember how our hearts were made even braver and our feet swifter by the CBCP's Pastoral Letter. Then, you were with us in pulling down the pillars of dictatorship, you were with us in advancing democracy.
But your Pastoral Letter of last month cannot be placed on the same plane because it is not of the same prophetic and moral fiber. By misrepresenting the Reproductive Health bill as promotive of abortion and of adolescent promiscuity – with all due respect - you have not only been intellectually dishonest and ignored the good faith of RH advocates, but also failed to proclaim the life-saving and values-formation character of this public health measure, which many of us in your own flock, in conscience, desire to be passed into law. In 1986, you were advancing democracy; now, you are impeding democracy.
In the section, What We Specifically Object to in the RH Bill, you wrote that "Advocates also assert that the RH Bill empowers women with ownership of their own bodies... without the dictation of any religion."
We do not own our bodies, but our spirits inhabit them, therefore they are our kingdom, and just as we struggle for the self-determination of Inangbayan and the sustainability of Inang Kalikasan, by the same feminine principle, we freely, in an informed manner, responsibly and joyfully, decide about our bodies. No one else can or should do that for us.
Whatever gave you the idea that we decide about our bodies or anything else in life without anchoring in our deepest inspirations, whether faith or humanism or the sheer sense of being a woman? I kneel only to God, sometimes with the princes of my church, but always from the innermost voice of conscience which I strive humbly to discern in silence or in the marketplace.
As a Conference of men located outside women's experience, good Bishop, could you not show a little more respect for us?
We choose life, we embrace its every cycle, from birth and girlhood to the childbearing years to menopause or climacterium and then death. We want each and every sister to have a chance at that fullness of life. It is a shame that we do not have the Bishops marching beside us this time around. But, without you or even against you, we will win this new revolution, too.
Respectfully yours,
(sgd.) Risa Hontiveros
Spokesperson, Akbayan Party
mukhang malayo ang mararting ng hidwaang ito... kawawa lang ang mahihirap dito na patuloy na naghihirap hindi dahil sa anak kundi sa kawalan ng tamang kaisipan .... whether we have condoms or not poverty will always be there....
I really admire Risa Hontiveros. Number one siya sa senators list na binoto ko.
Quote from: Kilo 1000 on February 17, 2011, 09:01:53 PM
Rumor going on that the Church is telling proRH bill people not to take communion...
so much for separation of the church and the state...
I find this disgusting move by the church.
The CBCP said this is not true, and accused pro-RH of black propaganda, saying this would boomerang on the pro-RH camp.
Now, look who's getting boomeranged.
Accusation of black propaganda boomerangs on CBCP (http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2011/02/20/accusation-of-black-propaganda-boomerangs-on-cbcp/)
I super AGREE with this RH bill.
kung may concern ang nanay at tatay na di nila kaya mapigilan ang gumawa ng bata eh mag condom sila ta di pa nila kayang buhayin at pinapabayaan lang nila. BAD yun!
yung mga tanong di nakakaangat sa buhay yung ang dapat mag control kasi sila yung hot na hot. sila yung daming anak. may kapit bahay nga kami anak nya 13 na. walang naka tapos. hayst.
post ko lang... topic related e...
A CALL FOR UNITY
On Ash Wednesday the Cathedral of the King, in Manila, Philippines gathered for Eucharist at 6:00 AM to start the Lenten Season with the imposition of ashes.
Throughout Epiphany, we were reminded of the awesomeness of Christ's power in our lives. We have been repeatedly told that this power we posses is the same power that brought up Christ from the dead therefore there is nothing that could stop us to manifest His image to a world that needs to see Christ.
However, man has weaknesses. He has the tendency to rely on his own strength and become arrogant and start claiming this power as His own. This is why we journey through the 40 days of Lent to bring back a balance into our lives starting with the imposition of ash on our forehead. It is a visible sign which reminds us that we are merely dust and to dust we shall return. It is by the power of God's breathing life into us that we have become like Him and not by our own efforts.
Lent calls us to an awareness of our self-centeredness. It is a time to evaluate our lives and put into proper place what God has given us to build up others. God trusts each of us to take what we have been given not for personal gain.
On Ash Wednesday, Abp. Loren T. Hines enjoined everyone to declare our stand against the controversial RH Bill (Reproductive Health Bill) which has started to be heard in the Senate on Shrove Tuesday...a day when man should be bidding farewell to the flesh. What an insult to the Giver of Life that men would choose this day to fight His principles.
We must declare our protest by wearing our ALL LIFE IS SACRED t-shirts or any plain black t-shirt everyday for the rest of the season. Streamers are being printed to be hanged on the gates of our homes as well as bumper stickers for our cars.
Members of the church in Manila are also campaigning among friends, in and out of the country, to change their Facebook profile pictures to ALL LIFE IS SACRED. Among the very first ones to respond to this move is Patriarch Craig Bates and Fr. Terry Gensemer.
We must make a stand together for righteousness and truth; and, not be deceived by the wiles of men who are selfish and desirous of material gain. This is a disease that plagues men of all nations! Men of God must stand together and fight this battle.
Life was given to man as a gift that we may make visible God's glory and manifest his image and likeness in a world what has been corrupted by sin.
Together let us make a stand that ALL LIFE IS SACRED!
It does not mean that when one supports the RH Bill, one does not respect the sacredness of life. In fact, the intention of the RH Bill is to uphold the integrity of life -- life that is given by God and God alone.
Quote from: ctan on March 11, 2011, 02:30:46 PM
It does not mean that when one supports the RH Bill, one does not respect the sacredness of life. In fact, the intention of the RH Bill is to uphold the integrity of life -- life that is given by God and God alone.
korekek! ;D
kung mag-weigh ako, mas pabor na ako sa RH bill rather than abortion.
Quote from: angelo on March 13, 2011, 09:35:12 AM
kung mag-weigh ako, mas pabor na ako sa RH bill rather than abortion.
RH bill is GOOD.
Abortion is SUPER BAD.
^ but many anti-RH people equate RH Bill with abortion.
Quote from: carpediem on March 13, 2011, 05:51:28 PM
^ but many anti-RH people equate RH Bill with abortion.
which is of course a judgment based on misinformation
Academicians and scientists decried the misuse of science and the abuse of power by some educators in waging a propaganda campaign against House Bill 4244, the Reproductive Health (RH) Bill now being deliberated on in Congress. (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=669243&publicationSubCategoryId=63)
Why the Church allows Natural Birth Control (but not Contraception) (http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2011/03/20/why-the-church-allows-natural-birth-control-but-not-contraception/)
di kaya susunod dito ay ang ang pag limit na sa number ng anak
but it was already implemented sa other country.... is the number of children really the cause of poverty? theres really more to RH bill ...thats why the church is so much against it
That's one of the misconceptions, that if the RH Bill is passed, it will lead to limiting the number of children a couple can have.
The number of children is not the cause of poverty. It worsens the effect of poverty.
Quote from: ctan on January 14, 2011, 06:20:58 PM
Quote from: judE_Law on January 14, 2011, 12:41:48 PM
Quote from: ctan on January 09, 2011, 11:28:35 PM
When I see our charity patients, talagang napapaisip ako na dapat may RH bill na na-aprub...
when i see charity patients... i see the big difference between rich and poor... :(
isa rin yan sa consequence ng overpopulation eh... however, i could not deny that this is a sad fact. we all want something that would benefit all. egalitarianism comes into mind when we don't want social stratification to happen. but practically, it's not beneficial to all too.
i want to make a documentary film tungkol dito Doc..
hindi ko makalimutan yung nakita ko... :(
EDITED....
PRO RH BILL :)
Pro RH bill ako. Good health and welfare. ;D
grabe baka next time mabalita, 10 year old nanganak na ;D
yung iba pa sa kanila sinisisi ang gobyerno pero anak naman ng anak. lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Kilo 1000 on April 21, 2011, 07:05:39 PM
Today I met a 34 year old mother who has an OB score of Gravida 12 Para 10 (7229) = 12 times nabuntis 10 times na nganak. who was consulting for her 1st pre-natal checkup......
ANO BA YAN! Wala ka na bang ginawa kundi gumawa ng bata??!!?
meron! magsimba! ::)
Yes!
Kilo, we're in the position to advice these women. :-) kahit na anong sabihin ng RC with regards sa RHbill, kung effective nating ma-educate sila, gawin na natin. :-)
I have read the RH Bill carefully the other day.
I'd like to point out the the bill has very good intentions such as reducing population, educating people, improving care for pregnant women, upgrading hospital facilities etc...
But I do not agree with everything that is written there and I understand why the Catholic church is against it. There are a few sections that are against the church's teachings and the church needs to voice out its stand on the RH bill.
I'm not a legislator, but I was thinking that maybe the government and the church can arrive with a compromise?
Okay, first things first:
I'm posting here NOT because I'm debating nor am I pretending to be a Saint, but I'm posting here just to share what I remember from my Theology and Catechism class in college and how I think it relates to the Church's disagreements over the RH bill.
I read the full version of the bill here: http://www.pngoc.org/Download%20Section/HB%2096%20as%20filed.pdf
I
*think* that these are the parts of the RH bill that the church does not like. Pay attention to the texts in
BOLD:
QuoteAt the heart of the bill is freedom of informed choice. Neither the State nor the Church has the authority to compel the people or the faithful what family planning method to adopt. The choice belongs to parents and couples, particularly to women who have the inherent right over their own bodies.
QuoteThe State shall promote, without bias, all modern natural and artificial methods of family planning that are medically safe, legal and effective.
QuoteWhile nothing in this Act changes the law against abortion, the government shall ensure that all women needing care for post-abortion complications shall be treated and counseled in a humane, non-judgmental and compassionate manner.
QuoteSEC. 16. Mandatory Age-Appropriate Reproductive Health and Sexuality Education
Age-appropriate Reproductive Health and Sexuality Education shall be taught by adequately trained teachers in formal and non-formal educational system starting from Grade Five up to Fourth Year High School using life-skills and other approaches.
Church's stand:Although we have freedom of choice, the Church believes that life and the human body is sacred and the temple of the Holy Spirit.
AFAIK and from what I learned in Theology 101, the Church does not approve artificial contraceptives due to the following reasons:
1. Sex is meant to procreate and not a means for recreation
2. Artificial Contraceptives will promote casual sex and sex, according to the Church is for married couples only. The church only supports natural family planning methods.
Although I agree that post-abortion care should be given to women who undergo the procedure, the Church is afraid that this might be a
"precursor" to legalizing abortion.
The mere fact that there is a support for post-abortion procedures, women might start to think that it is safe to undergo abortion procedures (even if illegal) because they can seek for post medical assistance if the operation is not successful then deal with the legalities later. Whereas in the past, and in the pre-RH bill era, women were more afraid to undergo abortion procedures because they know that they have no hospitals to go to if the procedure fails for fear of getting caught by the authorities.
Lastly, the compulsory sex education from grade 5 - 4th year highschool is a no-no to the Church and even to some parents. Remember that grade 5-6 pupils are within the 10-12 year old range and they may be too young for that.
Morever, children do not grow and mature at the same pace so what is too early for some to attend to sex ed, may be too late for the others and vice versa. Maybe sex ed for highschool pupils is ok. If you come to think of it, age 11 may be too early for some kids and they may not even be ready to understand sex ed. Think of yourself when you were age 10 or 11, do you think you were ready and would understand sex ed at that time?
As I see it, the Church's stand regarding RH bill is more on issues pertaining to morality, but in terms of provisions regarding medical care, the bill is really quite good. This is the primary reason why I mentioned that *maybe* they can arrive with a compromise.
And let me repeat: I'm not playing a
saint, I'm just sharing what I know regarding the POV of the church. Hope this helps :D
Thanks Kilo, very good points indeed. If the RH bill becomes a law, sex education should be carefully tailored depending on the maturity of each student.
And yes, the Catholic point of view is of course, meaningless and nonsense to other religions and they cannot impose it to non-believers.
However, the Catholic Church has to do its job to voice out its opinion since its members and its faithful are looking up to the clergy to explain the stand of the Church in terms of morals surrounding the RH bill.
The Catholic Church can do demonstrations and such but at the end of day, they are still separate from the State. A few members of the clergy even think that the RH bill will be signed into law in no time due to the president supporting it. All the Church can do is to tell its faithful what they think is right and what they think is wrong, after all the clergy are the successors of the apostles of Christ - and that's the Catholic point of view.
This is good. INC and other religious groups are pushing for the RH Bill.
http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=679615&publicationSubCategoryId=63
the sister of my father have 15 children. Manyak ung panget na asawa nun.., We're not close. Hahaha! Worse, they aren't even rich enough to hold with such massive children. The siblings were mostly in their 20s na and some are already married.
Kanina habang nagdo-door-to-door vaccine kami for anti-tigdas, i saw several families in shanty houses with 5 or more children. Kanina rin sa health center, there were a couple of pregnant women, ang isa G7P5(5014). Ibig sabihin niyan, pang 7th time na niyang pagbubuntis, 5 beses nakapanganak, 5 sakto sa buwan nung ipinanganak, isa nalaglag, 4 ang currently buhay na anak. Bakit siya buntis ngayon? Kasi laging lasing si mister niya at naghahanap ng sex ng walang proteksiyon. Kung sana lang may RH Bill...
Quote from: ctan on April 26, 2011, 06:10:55 PM
Kanina habang nagdo-door-to-door vaccine kami for anti-tigdas, i saw several families in shanty houses with 5 or more children. Kanina rin sa health center, there were a couple of pregnant women, ang isa G7P5(5014). Ibig sabihin niyan, pang 7th time na niyang pagbubuntis, 5 beses nakapanganak, 5 sakto sa buwan nung ipinanganak, isa nalaglag, 4 ang currently buhay na anak. Bakit siya buntis ngayon? Kasi laging lasing si mister niya at naghahanap ng sex ng walang proteksiyon. Kung sana lang may RH Bill...
oo nga naman
bakit hindi nila
maintindihan yun hehehehe......
pero kahit isa anak nila malamng di rin sila aahon sa hirap kung di nila renew mind nila
Quote from: joshgroban on April 26, 2011, 10:14:37 PM
pero kahit isa anak nila malamng di rin sila aahon sa hirap kung di nila renew mind nila
nandoon na tayo monch. pero hindi naman porke walang change sa sarili nila, hindi na nila deserve ang isang society and government that would want to protect them from further poverty especially in health.
watch nyo mamya rh bill harapan late night na... debate kung debate
Anong oras josh?
alam ko sunday special e.... chek ko rin.... sacrifice sakin to...dapat uwi ako tanay...kulit visor ko e ...kinimpromiso ko...pero okey na rin....greet ko pa naman wife ko mothers day
^^ gusto ko sumali sa mga ganyan. hahahaha!
Harapan on RHBill. Pagkatapos ng PGT. :)
pinapanood ko. :P
Quote from: Mr.Yos0 on May 08, 2011, 11:36:19 PM
pinapanood ko. :P
grabe intense! hindi ako maka-inom ng tubig. hahah. :)
grabe ang init ng debate.. pero gusto kong ibabad dun sa tanong regarding dun sa "over population"
nanonood ako pero may headset! galing ng neon trees! hwooh!
grabe, nagiging busy and active na naman ang aking twitter account! hahahaha!
Quote from: ctan on May 09, 2011, 12:00:27 AM
grabe, nagiging busy and active na naman ang aking twitter account! hahahaha!
Hahaha! Nabasa ko nga tweets mo cocoy. :D
OT: follow me!! @nicopoli
^^ I did na. :-)
Jambee, hahaha!
thanks, followed you too! :)
so, ano na? nakapagdesisyon na kayo?
pro o anti? ;D
dati pa! :-D
IPASA ANG RH BILL!!!
proRH... :)
haha dapat tayo dito sa forum ang magdebate e...ang syete meron din ganito grand daw sa kanila hehe... gaya gaya
ang gulo ng harapan kagabi sa abs-cbn. kakatawa sila mag away. si roilo golez nakakainis.
gusto ko ung sinabi ng isa sa mga pro rh bill last night sa harapan ng abs-cbn. parang ganito ang sabi nya: respect diversity. di lahat ng pilipino katoliko.
tama nga naman. lumalabas kase na ang issue ng rh bill ay labanan between the catholic church and the government.
^^ yeah, sabi yun nung girl doctor na parang boyish na UP professor. :-D
meron din ako nabasa na tweet kagabi... nakalimutan ko na kung kanino galing and yung exact tweet pero it goes something like this (break it down... yeah).
"if you're catholic and you don't want to use a condom, then don't. but don't stop others from doing so..."
parang ganon...
----
ayun. nakita ko na. :)
@juanmagdaraog
if you're catholic and it's against your belief to use condoms then don't. but don't deprive other people of it just because. #rhbill
CBCP pulls out of RH Bill talks
MANILA, Philippines - President Benigno "Noynoy" Aquino III's recent speech supporting the Reproductive Health Bill at the risk of excommunication is the last straw for the Catholic Bishops' Conference of the Philippines (CBCP).
The latter decided to pull out from dialogues with Malacañang over the controversial bill, saying "there's no reason to further undertake a serious study/dialogue in House Bill 4244 with the administration as proposed by President Aquino himself."
CBCP secretary-general Msgr. Juanito Figura and legal counsel Jo Imbong personally went to Malacañang to deliver a letter stating prelates are backing out of discussions. The parties had 2 meetings previously.
The letter was signed by Imus Bishop Luis Antonio Tagle, chairman of the Episcopal Commission on the Doctrine of the Faith; Parañaque Bishop Jesse Mercado, chairman of the Episcopal Commission on the Laity and Antipolo Bishop Gabriel Reyes, former chairman of the Episcopal Commission on the Laity.
CBCP News said the prelates cited 5 salient points for their withdrawal.
They said the bill had good provisions, but are offset and "interwoven and packaged with the bad provisions."
These provisions include the promotion and legalization of contraceptives as a means for population control. They added these are widely acknowledged to bring serious and adverse consequences on human health and lives and hampers creation of "human lives that are formed at fertilization."
The provisions also "establish a mindset and a value-system that are secularist, materialistic, individualistic and hedonistic in the guise of development and modernity."
"The bill abuses the meanings of 'rights', 'choice', 'freedom', and 'responsible parenthood' as these trample on the religious and moral exercise of conscience," the prelates added.
In fact, all its so-called good provisions are already incorporated in the 1987 Constitution, they said. "These simply need to be implemented through aggressive and sincere policy enforcement," they added.
They also took offense over the use of public funds for the promotion of artificial contraceptives.
They added the government should not yield to pressures from monitoring bodies of the United Nations.
In a press conference in Malacañang, Presidential spokesman Edwin Lacierda expressed disappointment over the CBCP's decision.
He said the prelates took out of context the President's speech.
He added it is more prudent for the bishops to join the debates since their stand is crucial in keeping the public informed. The Palace said it is still keeping its lines open should the CBCP decide to again involve itself in the discussions.
Because of this development, the Palace no longer has plans to draft a copy of the bill and will instead review the consolidated version. – with reports from Jenny Reyes, ABS-CBN News
source: http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/05/10/11/cbcp-pulls-out-rh-bill-talks
bakit ba kasi nakikialam yung simbahan sa gobyerno
There's no need for the government to have a dialogue with CBCP in the first place.
Still undecisive ako dito sa RH Bill pero I'd say na yes ako on some of its objectives with emphasis on responsible parenting and everyting for the sake of children and women undergoing pregnancy. (On Biblical side)Honestly I disagree the use of contraceptives or modern methods;I think that includes vasectomy/ligation . And in my opinion kahit maipasa na ang bill na ito, morality and responsibility na ng tao ang magiging issue, like why make a bunch of babies if you could not even raise yourself properly. For me hindi reason ang walang libangan kaya nagbe-baby making or hindi dapat isisi lang sa gobyerno ang pagiging mahirap mo. Everytime na nakakapanood ako sa tv ng malalaking pamilya na halos mamalimos na, mas lumalamang ang inis ko sa magulang nila. Why kasi hindi sila responsible parents eh, and their mistakes and neglects make their innocent children suffer the consequences. By the way I am not for a debate here, I just want to post my insight and opinions, hehehe.If you could convince me, why not. And another thing, I commend na rin si Sir Josh Groban. Hehehe...I admire you due to the fact that you stand for what you believe in.hehehe...For me it is a serious matter and will go along way before it comes to end especially na two foundations of a country ang nagka-clash. Yun lang. Good evening.hehehe...
^^ hahaha. admirable talaga yang si moch aka joshgroban. biruin mo, firm pa rin siya ngayon sa paninindigan niya sa pagiging anti-RH Bill dito. hehehe! :-)
Pro-RH
manny pacquiao is anti-RH. Thoughts?
^ i respect him for a sportsman. it ends there.
Quote from: incognito on May 09, 2011, 10:04:57 AM
ang gulo ng harapan kagabi sa abs-cbn. kakatawa sila mag away. si roilo golez nakakainis.
yup napanood ko yan. kakatawa rin si carlos celdran. galit na galit.
pero ang ganda nung debate. may point both sides, actually. ;D
no to RH Bill.
Yes to Responsible Parenthood.
^ amen to this.
DZIQ: Pro-RH bill Ateneo teachers are free to go — Fr. Reuters
MANILA, Philippines—Faculty members who support the Reproductive Health (RH) bill have no right to teach in Ateneo de Manila University, Jesuit priest James Reuters said, according to a Radyo Inquirer report aired Tuesday.
Reuters was quoted as saying that the RH bill violates what a Catholic institution like the Ateneo stands for, because he claimed the bill promotes abortion. He said the basic law in a Catholic school is simple: follow the rule of God.
He added that freedom of speech was not absolute.
The report said that Reuters had advised the Ateneo administration to investigate teachers supporting the bill.
In 2008, a group of professors from Ateneo de Manila University threw their support for the RH bill.
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/nation/view/20110517-337000/DZIQ-Pro-RH-bill-Ateneo-teachers-are-free-to-goFr-Reuters
^ buti na lang opinion niya lang yan. baka wala ng matirang nagtuturo sa ateneo.
its still a no...
Is Pacman now pro-RH Bill?
Africa Needs Population Growth, Not Birth Control
Chinwuba Iyizoba
The United Nations recently published its two-yearly update of world population projections. These suggest that Nigeria could rise to 725 million people by 2100. Western media are shrilly calling for Nigeria to put a check on her population growth.
No way, sorry. We Nigerians are rejoicing.
Africans love children. First for financial security. In the past children helped in the farms and the more of them the better. Today, with little or no social security, children are needed to support their parents in old age. Their contributions constitute an informal pension scheme. And having more children means a better pension.
Second, many children ensure that we avoid the problem of ageing populations. We know that in Europe and America, birthrates are far below replacement level. Their populations are ageing and a huge pension debt is resting on the shoulders of a shrinking number sof their working youths. A day of reckoning is looming for them. Nigerians want to avoid this.
Third, our large population supplies our economy with the dynamic and youthful workforce it needs to grow, as well as huge markets for all types of businesses.
Why are Westerners so nervous? Perhaps they believe that Africans will consume all the food. Critics of large population argue that population grows geometrically and food production arithmetically and that soon the human population will outstrip food production and we will all starve. This theory was first floated by Thomas Malthus.
What Malthusians fail to take into consideration is the human spirit of enterprise. Necessity is the mother of invention. This was the case with the breakthrough of Norman Boulaug, the famous scientist who invented high yield crops. Even though Boulaug did not realize it, he had refuted Malthus.
Nor is our large population the primary reason why we are poor. "For these countries to overpopulate themselves like this is a burden on themselves and the world. They are driving themselves into poverty. I suppose they will be expecting other nations to accept their overflow when their irresponsibility makes life in their own countries unbearable," sniffs a Malthusian reader of The Economist. "High rates of population growth is the number one indicator of under-development," shouts another.
Such nonsense is often based on ignorance. Even that paragon of exactitude, The Economist, mixed up Niger and Nigeria in its comment on a graph of population growth. But this is a salutary mistake. Let's compare the two countries. Niger has a population of 15 million and suffers from high unemployment, poverty and an unskilled workforce. It is poorer than Nigeria with its 150 million people by a long margin. Are population and poverty really linked?
The real reason for poverty is corrupt rulers, not a lack of birth control.
Most Africans are ruled by sit-tight leaders who are supported by Western countries because they guarantee secure access to resources. "Rivalry between the United States and the USSR for the rich resources of Congo culminated in General Mobutu Sese Seko's rule, an extremely corrupt regime that lasted 32 years and sapped the country of its income and stability," says Paul Johnson in his book Modern Times. African democracy — with some exceptions like Ghana and Botswana — is replete with power-hungry men who cling to power even if it destroys their country. Just think of Kenya, Gabon and recently the Ivory Coast. Such men loot and steal the resources entrusted to them for the development of their people. In many cases they stash their loot in Western banks while the Western governments look the other way.
In 2009 US Secretary of State Hilary Clinton flew around Africa and spoke tough words to many African strongmen. But she sadly refused to comment when asked what the US and its allies are doing to ensure that embezzled funds are returned. Surely this evasive and insincere attitude keeps many Africans poor. Until corrupt leaders know that Europe will not shield them because of their wealth, they will not stop bleeding Africa dry.
Yet the Western propaganda that people make us poor blares on. It is often parroted by our own local media and now many Africans fear having many children. When I was young, I was taught that the world was overpopulated by my primary school teacher. My relatives complained about my mother's seven children. "A modern woman," they said, "shouldn't have so many."
But we all grew up to be healthy, normal adults and are now a great source of joy and support to my mother and father in their old age. Many of those relatives are envious because in their twilight years they have to deal with few children whom they spoilt silly.
The comfort of a small family is deceptive. Many young people in advanced countries are so spoilt by luxury that even the smallest setback feels intolerable. Euthanasia and birth control result from an inability to cope with suffering, pain and self denial. As one American lady said to me: "My biggest fear is suffering and I am so scared of pain." No wonder they have high suicide rates!
According to The Economist, "many people in the rich world live alone and die alone." Even in the US, white people will be in minority in the next ten years because of their low birth rate.
Nigeria and other African countries stand a good chance of becoming world leaders in the coming decades. They will be helping Europe and the US to fill gaps left by acute shortages of manpower. Perhaps it is a sign of the times that a Nigerian father of five is the new head of the United Nations Population Fund. "A world of 7 billion is both a challenge and an opportunity," says Dr Babatunde Osotimehin.
I totally agree with him.
I agree with joshgroban. No to RH Bill.
Lesser population is bad for the economy. If you are a businessman, sino bebentahan mo ng produkto mo? mga tumatanda? Look at what is happening right now in the US and Europe, they both have growing ageing population. Their economy is now in a declining mode.
Look at China - one with the largest population but is now turning to be the superpower. Angliit liit na nga ng bansa natin, paliliitin mo pa ang manpower. Tsk Tsk. No to RH Bill.
RH Bill = license to kill a defenseless life form.
Think about it.
Pro-RH Bill =/= Anti-Life
hi makabayan, welcome sa forums ^_^
I agree with mang juan.
RH bill is not a license to kill a defenseless life form if no conception was done.
yes to rh bill...
why not....
;D
Marami kasing loopholes ang RH Bill.
One example that they could use to eventually legalize abortion:
Section 4 (Definition of Terms) of the proposed bill states:
* h. Reproductive Health Education -- is the process of acquiring complete, accurate and relevant information on all matters relating to the reproductive system, its functions and processes and human sexuality; and forming attitudes and beliefs about sex, sexual identity, interpersonal relationships, affection, intimacy and gender roles. It also includes developing the necessary skills to be able to distinguish between facts and myths on sex and sexuality; and critically evaluate and discuss the moral, religious, social and cultural dimensions of related sensitive issues such as contraception and abortion.
To "critically evaluate and discuss the moral, religious, social and cultural dimensions of related sensitive issues such as contraception and abortion" paves the way to abortion because it will present abortion as a hypothetical (as of now in the Philippines, while practical in other countries) solution to an unplanned pregnancy. The next step will be to push for safe and legal abortion.
but we are not there yet
pag abortion na ang usapan dun ako
against...pero hindi pa natin macoconsider
na buhay yun not unless buo na sya sa
womb ng nanay....so i think it's okay to use
contraceptives etc... ;D
hahaha panoorin niyo tong debate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jasECFJAxs
hanapin niyo na lang yung other parts.
Yes to RH bill. ;D
Madaming tao akala nila all about artificial contraceptives ang RH Bill.
Ano ba kasing masama sa abortion aside sa pagiging immoral? Madami talagang ipokrito sa mundo :-*
chill..bro discussion lang to.. ang pusomo...
Quote from: joshgroban on May 26, 2011, 04:55:13 PM
chill..bro discussion lang to.. ang pusomo...
hahahaha....inay dali ang gamot...hahahaha ;D
^
hahaha
Pero nakakatuwa yung prof ng UP na anti kung anu-ano ang sinasagot.
Quote from: MakaBayan on May 26, 2011, 04:32:45 PM
Marami kasing loopholes ang RH Bill.
One example that they could use to eventually legalize abortion:
Section 4 (Definition of Terms) of the proposed bill states:
* h. Reproductive Health Education -- is the process of acquiring complete, accurate and relevant information on all matters relating to the reproductive system, its functions and processes and human sexuality; and forming attitudes and beliefs about sex, sexual identity, interpersonal relationships, affection, intimacy and gender roles. It also includes developing the necessary skills to be able to distinguish between facts and myths on sex and sexuality; and critically evaluate and discuss the moral, religious, social and cultural dimensions of related sensitive issues such as contraception and abortion.
To "critically evaluate and discuss the moral, religious, social and cultural dimensions of related sensitive issues such as contraception and abortion" paves the way to abortion because it will present abortion as a hypothetical (as of now in the Philippines, while practical in other countries) solution to an unplanned pregnancy. The next step will be to push for safe and legal abortion.
I don't see any problem with
REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH EDUCATION. If anti-RH people are concerned too much with the DISCUSSION of the MORAL, RELIGIOUS, SOCIAL, and CULTURAL dimensions of abortion, I guess as early as now, you should strengthen your population education and ensure high morality standards among the people, because honestly, that should have been done a long time ago. Just because ABORTION will be intelligently discussed, does that mean there is a posed threat to the morality of the people. MORALITY is not taught at an instant friends. MORALITY is a foundation of what you have been believing all your life. With this RH Bill, if you really are sure about your stand on ABORTION, you will be a stalwart of MORALITY against it. RH Bill does not force you to advocate abortion.
By the way, do anti-RH Bill people actually know everything about ABORTION? Let me give you a case, and tell what you will do if you are to make the final decision.
CASE:Your wife is pregnant, diagnosed to have ectopic pregnancy (meaning, instead of the normal implantation at the uterus, the implantation of the embryo is at the fallopian tube or other parts of the reproductive organs). Medically, ectopic pregnancy is not 100% viable, and aside from that it poses high maternal risk (such as internal hemorrhage). So these will be the choices:
A. Abort the fetus and let the mother live
B. Do not abort the fetus and let both fetus and mother die
What do you want to do?
Kahit mga pro-RH Bill, ano decision niyo sa hypothetical case?
yes,
yes proRH
dapat talaga pro-RH tayo!!!! hahaha.
anti RH bill ako..sorry sa mga pro,peace! ;)
NO!
Quote from: ctan on May 27, 2011, 11:36:23 AM
Kahit mga pro-RH Bill, ano decision niyo sa hypothetical case?
sa B ako. :)
OT: di ba secularized tayo? :)
yes..
:o :o :o :o
until now, i do not understand why there are a lot of people who are against the RH bill...
Quote from: ctan on November 01, 2011, 01:50:45 PM
until now, i do not understand why there are a lot of people who are against the RH bill...
doc tingin ko, magiging futile ang RH bill. pinaka-epektib, i-educate ang babae. [nyeh hindi ko pa nababasa ang RH bill in full context] pag tumanggi si babae, may magagawa ba si lalake (ay, meron pala)
mmm... iniisip ko eugenics or mandatory ligation or TAX-an ang bawat isang anak!!! imbes na gawing deductions!
yun kasi problem ng anti-RH proponents eh. they thought that the RH bill is just about contraception and population control. it actually addresses women's health, reproductive education, etc....
on the other note, read this:
http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/on-plagiarism-the-pill-and-presumptuousness/
may site ba para malaman ko yung contents ng RH bill?
nasa page 1 ang link
WALA NEUTRAL LANG AKO HINDI YES OR NO ANG SAGOT KO BAKIT?
FOR PRO RH--- SIGURADO BA KAU NA RH BILL LANG ANG PWEDENG SOLUTION PARA MATIGIL ANG PAG LAGO NG POPULATION NG BANSA AT PAGTIGIL NG MGA NAG AABORT AT TAMA RIN BA ANG LUBUSANG PAG GAMIT NG MGA CONTRACEPTIVES?
TRIVIA:
(OPINYON KO LANG WALANG BASAGAN!)
ALAM NYO BA NA ANG RH BILL AY PWEDE MAGING SANHI NANAMN NG KORAPSYON? BAKIT?
PANSININ NINYO AH ANG SABI NILA PAG NAPATUPAD ITO MAGPAPAKALAT SILA NG MGA CONTRACEPTIVES SA MGA MALILIIT NA TINDHAN AT PWEDE HUMINGI KAHIT ILAN BESES MO GUSTO THE FACT IS!!! PERA NG TAONG BAYAN ANG GAGAMITIN DUN AT MASASAYANG ANG PERA NG TAONG BAYAN PARA LANG SA ISANG PLASTIC LANG NA IYAN AT ISA PA OK LANG SANA KUNG SEX EDUCATION OK! PERO KUNG SASABHIN NILANG PARA CONTROLIN ANG POPULATION NG BANSA BELIEVE ME DI NILA MAGAGAWA YUN DI NILA HAWAK ANG UTAK NG TAO KAYA WALANG KARAPATAN ANG GOVERMENT KUNG ANU ANG DAPAT NGAWIN NG ISANG TAO TUNGKOL SA SEX.AT HIMBIS NA GAMITIN SA IBA NALNG AKTIBIDAD NA MAKAKATULONG SA PAGLAGO NG EKONOMIYA AT ANG TANUNG DYAN AY HANGGANG KELAN NILA GAGAWIN ANG PAGPAPAKALAT NG CONTRACEPTIVES FOR SURE NMN DI NANAMN MAGTATAGAL YAN AT SINISIGURADO KO NA DIN SA INYO NA HINDI LAHAT NG TAO DITO SA BANSANG PILIPINAS AY HINDI MAPAPAKINABANGAN ANG RH BILL
For Anti Rh-- SABI SA BIBLE MAGPARAMI TAU? BAKIT SA TINGIN NYO BA SA DAMI NA NG POPULASYON SA BANSA KAYA PA TAU SUSTENTUHAN NG GOBYERNO IN FACT? MADAMI NG NAGHIHIRAP NGAYON DAHIL SA SOBRANG DAMI NG TAO NGAYON ISIPIN NYO NALANG GAGRADUATE KA NG KOLEHIYO SIGURADONG MAY TRABAHO KABA? DIBA WALA? KAYA MADAMI SA KABABAYAN NATIN ANG NAKIKIPAG SAPALARAN SA IBANG BAYAN PARA LANG MABUHAY OO AYAW NINYO SA RH DAHIL SA MGA USAPING CONTRACEPTIVES NA SADYANG NAKAKASAMA SA BUHAY NG ISANG TAO PAG INABUSO ITO NAKAKALUNGKOT NGALANG ISIPIN SA PAGDAMI NG POPULASYON NG BANSANG PILIPINAS MADAMING NAGHIHIRAP,NAKIKIPAG SAPALARAN SA IBANG BAYAN, GUMAGAWA NG MGA KRIMEN PARA SA PERA O SARILING INTERES PARA LANG MABUHAY SA TINGIN NYO BA DAPAT PA SUNDIN ANG NAKASULAT SA BIBLE NA MAGPARAMI TAU?
^"humayo kayo at magpakarami.."
-sinabi 'to sa bible kasi nga wala pang tao sa earth dati..
Quote from: jelo kid on August 18, 2012, 03:23:32 PM
^"humayo kayo at magpakarami.."
-sinabi 'to sa bible kasi nga wala pang tao sa earth dati..
AYUN NA NGA JELO SO DAP[AT BA SUNDIN PA YUN NAKASULAT DUN x.x
^they must use their common sense!!madami na ngang tao sa earth eh dadagdagan pa nila?
^they must use their common sense!!madami na ngang tao sa earth eh dadagdagan pa nila?
Quote from: ctan on November 01, 2011, 01:58:09 PM
yun kasi problem ng anti-RH proponents eh. they thought that the RH bill is just about contraception and population control. it actually addresses women's health, reproductive education, etc....
TAMA! responsible parent hood ang kailangan, kung ma e-educate lang ang mahihirap na pamilya hindi nila iisipin na mag anak pa ng marami. gusto ko rin ng marami anak pero kung iisipin mo sa kalagayan ng pilipinas magaanak ka pa ba ng more than 2, tingnan nyo na lang nung mga late 70's 80's hindi pa gaano ka hirap ng pinas kasi hindi pa ganun ka dami tao, diba mas maganda isipin na may ginagawa ang government na solution (kahit marami pa nman ibang solution)kesa isipin naten na magiging corruption lang eto.
Quote from: jelo kid on August 19, 2012, 11:59:50 PM
^they must use their common sense!!madami na ngang tao sa earth eh dadagdagan pa nila?
ayun na nga its means di namn talaga kailngan ng RH bill na yan kasi beacause pwede namn talga kasi maging sanhi nanamn ng korupsyon
in a democratic government such as the Philippines, lahat (with emphasis) ng bagay ay pwede maging source ng corruption. so why single out RH Bill? duh.
http://www.google.com.ph/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CE0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Frhbill.org%2Fabout%2Frh-bill-text%2F&ei=z8kyUP6JLeWyiQeB84GYBA&usg=AFQjCNEfWdKIgbvRUOaqzdwoWdYcarJ7LQ
Much like Divorce law, RH bill gives people a legal choice.
God gave us free will, freedom to make choices in life.
I do not see why anyone should be preventing us to make those legal choices.
kahit wala nang RH bill.. basta may disiplina at self-control plus education.
^^ kung ganun nga jelo ang pag-iisip ng mga tao, sana wala na lang batas. Rules, i.e. provisions, presidential decree, republic act, etc, exist to put things in order and make that so-called discipline put into its proper action.
game ako sa RH bill.
no to RH bill..
Quote from: ctan on August 21, 2012, 11:43:46 AM
^^ kung ganun nga jelo ang pag-iisip ng mga tao, sana wala na lang batas. Rules, i.e. provisions, presidential decree, republic act, etc, exist to put things in order and make that so-called discipline put into its proper action.
--.--" Hello? ok kalang kung walang rules etc. ang bansa sa tingin mo ba may bansang pilipinas ngayon sabhin nanatin na most of the rules ay di nasusunod dahil na rin sa kakulangan ng disiplina ng mga pinoy PERO sa tingin mo rin ba kung walang rules eh magiging matino din ang mga TAO?
basahin mo mabuti ang flow ng discussion isamu. :-)
anyway, kaya nga. my post implied na rules and laws are important even if people would discipline themselves.
Now lang pala ako magpopost dito :D. On my personal view, go ako for rh bill.
pro QUALITY of life.
natutuwa ako na maraming lalaki dito ay pro-rh kasi usually babae lang ang nakakaintindi kung bakit mahalaga ito para sa lipunan. saludo ako sa inyo! :D
Quote from: joycegonzales89 on September 17, 2012, 05:39:40 PM
natutuwa ako na maraming lalaki dito ay pro-rh kasi usually babae lang ang nakakaintindi kung bakit mahalaga ito para sa lipunan. saludo ako sa inyo! :D
AMEN?
Yes ako. Kasi I think na it will discipline the people under the said bill. Especially sa mga "squatter" and even those irresponsible parents na walang ginawa kundi mag anak ng mag anak. (and I am not saying na kapag squatter ka, sex na kaagad ang inaatupag ah. Generally speaking lang.)
Quote from: Isamu on August 23, 2012, 02:08:46 PM
Quote from: ctan on August 21, 2012, 11:43:46 AM
^^ kung ganun nga jelo ang pag-iisip ng mga tao, sana wala na lang batas. Rules, i.e. provisions, presidential decree, republic act, etc, exist to put things in order and make that so-called discipline put into its proper action.
--.--" Hello? ok kalang kung walang rules etc. ang bansa sa tingin mo ba may bansang pilipinas ngayon sabhin nanatin na most of the rules ay di nasusunod dahil na rin sa kakulangan ng disiplina ng mga pinoy PERO sa tingin mo rin ba kung walang rules eh magiging matino din ang mga TAO?
Precisely. Kaya kailangan ng rules is to establish order. Ex. Hindi naman maglalagay ng "Bawal Umihi Dito" sa pader kung walang umiihi doon.
The SC just declared the RH Law constitutional, except for some of its provisions.
Do you have the details of the decision?
Here:
http://www.rappler.com/nation/54946-supreme-court-rh-law-constitutional
Apparently it's a yes for RH minus some provisions.
Yes. Praktikal ito sa bayan.
NO ! pero law na sya la na ko magagawa xD
Ako "NO" to RH Law kasi sa tingin ko mali ang premise o basehan ng mga tao kung bakit dapat may RH.
Sa mga nabasa-basa ko at naririnig sa tv ang RH daw e magbibigay ng choice sa mga tao kung gusto nilang mag-contraceptive. Pero kahit naman walang RH e malaya lahat tayo, "may choice" tayo na bumili ng contraceptives.
Isa pang dahilan e yung ibang tao daw e walang pambili. Sa totoo lang e (ayo kong maging harsh pero di ko talaga alam kung pano to sasabihin sa ibang paraan) hindi na responsibilidad ng ibang tao ang pang contraceptive ng iba. Kanya kanya tayong responsibilidad sa sarili natin. Kung ako walang pambili ng condom wala DAPAT akong karapatang kunin ang pambili sa ibang tao, kaya DAPAT wala din akong karapatang payagan ang gobyerno na kunin ang pera ng iba(tax) para ibili ako ng condom.
Kakambal nung dahilang "walang pambili" e yung argument na kailangan nating tulungan yung mga mahihirap. Nasabi ko na yung tungkol sa responsibilidad, kung sobrang hirap mo at wala kang pambili ng pills o condom wag ka nang makipag sex. At agree ako na dapat nating tulungan yung DESERVING tulungan pero wala namang pumipigil sating gawin yun. Di natin kailangan ang gobyerno para makatulong. At di dapat na gamitin ang gobyerno para pilitin ang isang tao para magbigay ng pera sa cause na di nya pinaniniwalaan. At tayo ang magdedesisyon kung sino ang gusto nating tulungan.
Ang sagot talaga sa kahirapan e yung batas. Kung tama ang mga batas kayang yumaman ng mga mamamayan.
Eto dapat ang batas na gawin, hindi RH:
Dapat malaya ang isang tao na gawin anuman ang gusto nya sa ari-arian nya basta lang hindi yun harmful sa iba;
Kaya dapat pwedeng magtrabaho ang mga tao sa kahit anong trabahong gusto nila delikado man yon o sobrang mababa ang sahod o imoral sa paningin ng iba dahil DAPAT walang paki ang iba sa gusto mong gawin sa sarili mong buhay;
Pwedeng bumili o magbenta ng mga produkto kahit kanino(walang discrimination ang gobyerno sa domestic o international), at sa presyong napagkasunduan ng nagbebenta at bumibili(di kinokontrol ng gobyerno ang presyo) again dahil DAPAT wala nang paki ang iba kung kanino mo pwedeng ibenta o ibigay ang pag-aari mo at kung magkano kung payag naman yung bumibili-na wala ring paki ang iba dahil pera naman nya yung ginagastos nya;
Ang karapatan sa lahat ng kinita e doon lang sa may-ari at pwede nyang gawin kahit ano sa kinita nya DAHIL kanya yon;
At ang TALONG MALAKING DAPAT...
Hindi pwedeng labagin ng gobyerno ang pag-aari ng iba SA KAHIT ANONG DAHILAN maliban lang kung harmful of trespassing nga yung paggamit mo sa third parties(usok, ingay, alikabok);
Dapat ang pera ng bansa e gold o silver, hindi dahil fan ako ng shiny yellow metals kundi dahil hindi kayang magmanufacture/mag-print ng gobyerno ng gold o silver(may natural limit sa supply, one of the rarest element in the universe at mahirap at mahal kunin) kaya hindi liliit ng liliit ang kayang bilin ng bawat pera. Ibig sabihin kapag nag-ipon ka, mayaman ka man o mahirap, pagkatapos ng ilang taon hindi lumiit ang kayang bilin ng ipon mo dahil hindi minanipula ng gobyerno ang supply ng pera. At dahil mas mabilis ang pag-improve ng technology na nagpapabilis sa pagdami ng products at services, ang kayang bilin ng sweldo ng isang ordinaryong manggagawa e padami ng padami habang tumatagal, hindi paliit ng paliit tulad ngayon kung saan paper at digital money ang meron tayo na kayang kayang doblehin o triplehin ng gobyerno kailan man nila gusto;
Ang dapat lang gawin ng gobyerno e pangalagaan ang karapatan nating lahat(pantay-pantay) na gawin ang kahit anong gusto natin sa ating sarili at sa mga pag-aari natin.
At kung pagpapatupag lang ng batas na yan ang gagawin ng gobyerno, hindi na natin kailangan ng malaking buwis which is good dahil mas marami ang matitira sa indibidwal.
In short ang batas na dapat natin gawin o kung meron na e pagtibayin e:
Respect for individual freedom, respect for property, free trade, sound monetary policy, limited government.
^^ Reproductive Health naman ang primary goal ng RH Bill.
Effect na lang ng RH Bill ang lag-address sa poverty issues ng Pilipinas.
Yes. Realistic lang naman. Marami kasi di kaya magabstain from... Lol.
Quote from: ctan on September 01, 2014, 09:59:26 PM
^^ Reproductive Health naman ang primary goal ng RH Bill.
Effect na lang ng RH Bill ang lag-address sa poverty issues ng Pilipinas.
I am sorry if my posts are too long. Complex issues are complex. I need plenty of words. :-[
But the cause is poverty. Because of poverty people want the government to provide free rh services to those who couldnt afford it. That is why I pointed out the root of why we are poor which is government micromanagement of everything from property development around the Rizal park, to what you buy and where, to the price of things, to the supply of money. We all know the government isnt good at management(public schools, public health centers, public hospitals, public markets, public roads, public rail/metro like the MRT, anything with public in or on it is guaranteed to stink of shit). Do you think its wise to give the government additional job, more power? My solution in my previous post is that what we need is more freedom and less government not more government and less freedom. If we just let people decide for themselves, meaning set them free, I am sure they will choose to make their and their childrens lives better. Thats what free people do, we improve our situation if we can and we love our children. But now we have too many restrictions especially in the economy thats causing many to be poor and a lot of the middleclass dependent on overseas jobs, while the rich continue to sell their expensive but low quality products because they are protected from international competition. And we make a lot of people irresponsible by making them believe they have the right to money which belongs to another.
^^ you totally miss the point bro.
if you really want to go to the root cause of all these problems, go back to the issues on character and discipline of every individual. why are the poor, poor? why is a community non-progressive? despite years of efforts of the government to manage the country with pro-poor laws, why does the philippines remain a developing nation? why is singapore, japan, south korea rich now?
and do you know that the highest index of corruption in the kind of government is one that is of the democratic type? you want more freedom, yet the people don't actually exercise responsible freedom.
Quote from: ctan on September 02, 2014, 01:41:24 PM
^^ you totally miss the point bro.
if you really want to go to the root cause of all these problems, go back to the issues on character and discipline of every individual. why are the poor, poor? why is a community non-progressive? despite years of efforts of the government to manage the country with pro-poor laws, why does the philippines remain a developing nation? why is singapore, japan, south korea rich now?
and do you know that the highest index of corruption in the kind of government is one that is of the democratic type? you want more freedom, yet the people don't actually exercise responsible freedom.
Exactly that.
Quote from: ctan on September 02, 2014, 01:41:24 PM
^^ you totally miss the point bro.
if you really want to go to the root cause of all these problems, go back to the issues on character and discipline of every individual. why are the poor, poor? why is a community non-progressive? despite years of efforts of the government to manage the country with pro-poor laws, why does the philippines remain a developing nation? why is singapore, japan, south korea rich now?
and do you know that the highest index of corruption in the kind of government is one that is of the democratic type? you want more freedom, yet the people don't actually exercise responsible freedom.
May I ask what character and discipline issues are you talking about?
Many are poor because of lack of opportunity caused by very restrictive economic policies.
Imagine kung malaya talaga tayo na pwede kang mag-import ng mumurahing paninda galing ibang bansa na magpapababa sa presyo na mabuti lalo sa mahirap, tipid. Na pwede kang makipagsosyo sa mga dayuhan na lilikha ng mas maraming trabaho. Etc,etc,etc...Mas malaya mas maraming oportunidad. Pro poor. Tingnan mo ang Hong Kong at Singapore. Mas economically free sila kaya kahit maliit na isla lang mas mayaman pa satin. Kung walang pakialaman ng buhay at ariarian ang rule di problema ang mga walang disiplina kasi sila lang naman ang responsable sa sarili nila di tayo. Basta mind ur own business lang. Pero karamihan naman kung may oportunidad kikilos naman sila im sure.
Hindi majority rule ang titutuloy ko kundi limited government protecting rights lang. Hindi pwedeng tanggalin ang rights kahit pagbotohan ng majority.
Quote from: Dirigo on September 02, 2014, 05:06:04 PM
May I ask what character and discipline issues are you talking about?
It's basic. Although I do not intend to generalize, it is very observable that among Filipinos, those who belong to the marginalized class are those who tend to disobey laws. A perfect example would be jeepney drivers and taxi drivers. Most of them do not honor the traffic regulations. But of course, makikita rin ito sa mga mayayaman kaya nga I tell you that it boils down to disciplining oneself.
Quote from: Dirigo on September 02, 2014, 05:06:04 PM
Many are poor because of lack of opportunity caused by very restrictive economic policies.
I agree also on this. But poverty in the Philippines is not only attributable to such, but it is multifactorial. That is why governance is a very difficult area to be engaged in kasi you address the very issues that permeate in this society. It is not plain black and white: poverty = restrictive economic policies. No, it's not that.
Quote from: Dirigo on September 02, 2014, 05:06:04 PM
Imagine kung malaya talaga tayo na pwede kang mag-import ng mumurahing paninda galing ibang bansa na magpapababa sa presyo na mabuti lalo sa mahirap, tipid. Na pwede kang makipagsosyo sa mga dayuhan na lilikha ng mas maraming trabaho. Etc,etc,etc...Mas malaya mas maraming oportunidad. Pro poor. Tingnan mo ang Hong Kong at Singapore. Mas economically free sila kaya kahit maliit na isla lang mas mayaman pa satin. Kung walang pakialaman ng buhay at ariarian ang rule di problema ang mga walang disiplina kasi sila lang naman ang responsable sa sarili nila di tayo. Basta mind ur own business lang. Pero karamihan naman kung may oportunidad kikilos naman sila im sure.
Hindi naman ganun yan kadali. Kaya nga nagtatalo ang mga economist at businessmen pagdating sa aspeto na yan. Sabi ng mga businessmen, globalization ang sagot sa pagboost ng economy. Sabi naman ng mga economists, local industry muna ang palaguin. So again, I tell you that solving this kind of issue is not plain black and white. Hindi mo mapipilit na pamurahin ang mga panindang banyaga dahil madaming factors ang nagpamahal niya. As a matter of fact, look at the prices of products in free port areas. Sadly, poor people still cannot afford these products despite the lowered prices. Hongkong and Singapore were subjected to 'dictatorship' and their citizens willingly obeyed the government.
Quote from: Dirigo on September 02, 2014, 05:06:04 PM
Hindi majority rule ang titutuloy ko kundi limited government protecting rights lang. Hindi pwedeng tanggalin ang rights kahit pagbotohan ng majority.
All the more reason why the government should put up laws enabling the poor to have access to reproductive health facilities.
Quote from: Dirigo on September 01, 2014, 06:05:54 PM
Sa mga nabasa-basa ko at naririnig sa tv ang RH daw e magbibigay ng choice sa mga tao kung gusto nilang mag-contraceptive. Pero kahit naman walang RH e malaya lahat tayo, "may choice" tayo na bumili ng contraceptives.
I suggest reading the whole law instead of OPINIONS of the public as seen on media. Most of what the Catholic Church RE: promotion of abortion on the law is baseless.
Quote from: Dirigo on September 01, 2014, 06:05:54 PM
Isa pang dahilan e yung ibang tao daw e walang pambili. Sa totoo lang e (ayo kong maging harsh pero di ko talaga alam kung pano to sasabihin sa ibang paraan) hindi na responsibilidad ng ibang tao ang pang contraceptive ng iba. Kanya kanya tayong responsibilidad sa sarili natin. Kung ako walang pambili ng condom wala DAPAT akong karapatang kunin ang pambili sa ibang tao, kaya DAPAT wala din akong karapatang payagan ang gobyerno na kunin ang pera ng iba(tax) para ibili ako ng condom.
Kakambal nung dahilang "walang pambili" e yung argument na kailangan nating tulungan yung mga mahihirap. Nasabi ko na yung tungkol sa responsibilidad, kung sobrang hirap mo at wala kang pambili ng pills o condom wag ka nang makipag sex. At agree ako na dapat nating tulungan yung DESERVING tulungan pero wala namang pumipigil sating gawin yun. Di natin kailangan ang gobyerno para makatulong. At di dapat na gamitin ang gobyerno para pilitin ang isang tao para magbigay ng pera sa cause na di nya pinaniniwalaan. At tayo ang magdedesisyon kung sino ang gusto nating tulungan.
Providing access to contraception and sex education to the public is cheaper PREVENTIVE option than the implications of unwanted pregnancy, population growth, disease burden.
Cost of a condom should be less than 10 pesos
versus
Prenatal checkups + Labor and birth + Cost of raising a child + More education + Maternal complications + Child complication = more burden on the public hospitals = more people asking for more expensive welfare services
So it is of national interest that we cut down on unwanted pregnancies. YOUR TAXES are being used to pay for more expensive public health services due to unwanted pregnancies.
Quote from: Dirigo on September 01, 2014, 06:05:54 PM
Kaya dapat pwedeng magtrabaho ang mga tao sa kahit anong trabahong gusto nila delikado man yon o sobrang mababa ang sahod o imoral sa paningin ng iba dahil DAPAT walang paki ang iba sa gusto mong gawin sa sarili mong buhay;
So kahit sino puwedeng maging surgeon, nurse, accountant, architect?
There are some professions and jobs are specifically regulated so we can protect the public from malpractice.
Quote from: Dirigo on September 01, 2014, 06:05:54 PM
Pwedeng bumili o magbenta ng mga produkto kahit kanino(walang discrimination ang gobyerno sa domestic o international), at sa presyong napagkasunduan ng nagbebenta at bumibili(di kinokontrol ng gobyerno ang presyo) again dahil DAPAT wala nang paki ang iba kung kanino mo pwedeng ibenta o ibigay ang pag-aari mo at kung magkano kung payag naman yung bumibili-na wala ring paki ang iba dahil pera naman nya yung ginagastos nya;
Ang karapatan sa lahat ng kinita e doon lang sa may-ari at pwede nyang gawin kahit ano sa kinita nya DAHIL kanya yon;
You cannot outright REMOVE all forms of TAXES unless of course you want removal of function of ALL forms of government. Removal of government function would just lead to stronger oligarch, stronger more powerful clans and out right slavery of the people.
Pure deregulation and duty free unrestricted free trade can lead to monopolization which can lead to worsening rich-poor gap and more strength to the oligarchs.
Quote from: Dirigo on September 01, 2014, 06:05:54 PM
Hindi pwedeng labagin ng gobyerno ang pag-aari ng iba SA KAHIT ANONG DAHILAN maliban lang kung harmful of trespassing nga yung paggamit mo sa third parties(usok, ingay, alikabok);
What if you need a piece of land to construct a hospital, roads, MRT?
Teka, Parang meron kang PERSONAL PROBLEM na pinoproject mo dito sa forums. May ginawa ba gobyerno sa lupa mo?
Quote from: Dirigo on September 01, 2014, 06:05:54 PM
Dapat ang pera ng bansa e gold o silver, hindi dahil fan ako ng shiny yellow metals kundi dahil hindi kayang magmanufacture/mag-print ng gobyerno ng gold o silver(may natural limit sa supply, one of the rarest element in the universe at mahirap at mahal kunin) kaya hindi liliit ng liliit ang kayang bilin ng bawat pera. Ibig sabihin kapag nag-ipon ka, mayaman ka man o mahirap, pagkatapos ng ilang taon hindi lumiit ang kayang bilin ng ipon mo dahil hindi minanipula ng gobyerno ang supply ng pera. At dahil mas mabilis ang pag-improve ng technology na nagpapabilis sa pagdami ng products at services, ang kayang bilin ng sweldo ng isang ordinaryong manggagawa e padami ng padami habang tumatagal, hindi paliit ng paliit tulad ngayon kung saan paper at digital money ang meron tayo na kayang kayang doblehin o triplehin ng gobyerno kailan man nila gusto;
The government has limited capacity to control the natural flow of economics. Inflation is a natural phenomenon and so is supply and demand.
Switching the currency to pure gold is impractical.
Quote from: Dirigo on September 01, 2014, 06:05:54 PM
Ang dapat lang gawin ng gobyerno e pangalagaan ang karapatan nating lahat(pantay-pantay) na gawin ang kahit anong gusto natin sa ating sarili at sa mga pag-aari natin.
At kung pagpapatupag lang ng batas na yan ang gagawin ng gobyerno, hindi na natin kailangan ng malaking buwis which is good dahil mas marami ang matitira sa indibidwal.
In short ang batas na dapat natin gawin o kung meron na e pagtibayin e:
Respect for individual freedom, respect for property, free trade, sound monetary policy, limited government.
Wala sa mga nabanggit mo ang makakatulong sa problema ng Reproductive Health.
Kahit sabihin mong may
"individual freedom, respect for property, free trade, sound monetary policy, limited government."Kakantot ng kakatot LAHAT ng mga nasa squatters area at gagawa pa ng NAPAKARAMING BATA.
I agree to that Kilo. It's their past time already yung mga nsa squatters to have sex and sex and multiply ng walang kahirap hirap.
For reference:
http://www.gov.ph/2012/12/21/republic-act-no-10354/
I think Ive been discussing a lot that it becomes just too complicated so sorry. Ive been too enthusiastic to share my ideas. I will just restart.
MAIN ARGUMENT (this is what's important to me)
I am against RHL because it makes the responsible people pay (through tax) for the wrong of the irresponsible. I believe it is unreasonable & unfair. I think a better policy would be that the irresponsible be held responsible (put them to work to make them pay for their children's needs). I believe we should be promoting a life of self reliance than dependence (to others & to the government). We should empower people, not encourage the acceptance of helplessness.
SIDE NOTE (I just want to respond to these but its not really important to the main argument)
*Monopolies can never happen/have never happened in a free market. All monopolies ever are gov created.
*Gold was money for thousands of years & ended only in the 1970's so it's proven to be very practical.
*Ive already read RH back when it was just a bill.
*I dont side w/ the church. Im an atheist. Im againts RH for philosophical reasons.
^^ I do not think you got the whole RH clear to yourself sir.
"it makes the responsible people pay (through tax) for the wrong of the irresponsible"
This is a very superficial reason to be against the Law. It does not merely provide condoms and other forms of contraception to the irresponsible people. It actually forwards the cause of Reproductive Health in the Philippines. Mortality related to reproductive diseases and causes are very high (221 deaths in 100,000 reproductive health diseases) that we actually fall short big time of the United Nations' mandate as stated in MDG 5, to have universal access to reproductive health.
It is a given fact that developing countries like the Philippines, as well as underdeveloped countries, have records showing maternal deaths due to poor access of reproductive health facilities. Solution has to be provided in non-hypothetical problems such as this. A concrete and do-able law must be enacted for a solution to become a national mandate. And it is in this light that the RH Law takes effect.
Women who have septic abortions is a reality and it exists anywhere in this country. Instead of waiting for other options, prompt action is needed in order to save these dying women, and thus the RH Law.
Filipinos, especially the poor, have sex and produce babies, despite having lots of children in their houses. It is a reality that people have sex, especially during their idle moments. Agree that they should have jobs, but having sex sometime in the day will not be hindered. And so the RH Law stands, providing them all forms of contraception.
It is true that children nowadays are exposed to sex at an earlier age. Instead of criticizing the RH Law, why not teach these children how to be responsible with that aspect, especially with the truth that sex talked about at home is almost always a taboo.
And there are so much more that I could enumerate. True that Filipinos need jobs. But it is also true that such reproductive mishaps happen, raising the mortality rate of reproductive diseases. This alone warrants prompt action, thus the RH Law.