What is your view?
which church are we talking about?
Quote from: ctan on July 12, 2010, 01:24:39 AM
which church are we talking about?
hahaha. dapat pala specific din iyon ;D
Quote from: carpediem on July 12, 2010, 12:57:15 AM
What is your view?
for me, dapat lang. Saka ko na elaborate mahabang discussion ito ;D
Quote from: pinoybrusko on July 12, 2010, 02:57:20 AM
Quote from: ctan on July 12, 2010, 01:24:39 AM
which church are we talking about?
hahaha. dapat pala specific din iyon ;D
hehe. Yeah. Kasi when we say church, madami kasi ang churches. Pero i think in the context of the issue, baka roman catholic church, tama ba?
nako, mahaba-habang discussion nga to...
I think religion should be something like a guide for the state but not specifically controlling it...
Kailangan bang specific? The Church in general. Well in the Philippines, it is the Roman Catholic Church.
For me, the Church has been meddling with politics for too long.
If we are talking about the Roman Catholic leadership, yeah, I think that they should be separated. However, when webtalk about a politician's faith, we cannot take that away from him. I believe that whatever a politician's religion is, his faith and morals will essentially be reflected in the rules that he will impose.
Naiinis ako every time the Church meddles. For example the recent one about sex education and the use of condom.
sa tingin ko dapat lang.
kung ang simbahan ay magfo-focus sa pagpapayaman ng magagandang values, at pagtuturo ng mga salita ng Diyos.. i think hindi naman magiging problema ng bansa yung mga nag-uugat sa evil doings like patayan, rape, nakawan... kung may takot lang sa Diyos ang lahat ng Pilipino wala sigurong krimen.
'wag na sanang makialam ang simbahan sa isyu ng politika, although nakasalalay din naman ang moralidad doon.. mas marami kasing problema ang dapat harapin ng simbahan kesa politics.
Quote from: carpediem on July 12, 2010, 12:25:02 PM
Naiinis ako every time the Church meddles. For example the recent one about sex education and the use of condom.
The Church hold strongly to its faith that artificial contraceptives is a big no no to them. Natural method is what they preferred, Counselling and others.
Quote from: pinoybrusko on July 12, 2010, 12:50:12 PM
Quote from: carpediem on July 12, 2010, 12:25:02 PM
Naiinis ako every time the Church meddles. For example the recent one about sex education and the use of condom.
The Church hold strongly to its faith that artificial contraceptives is a big no no to them. Natural method is what they preferred, Counselling and others.
i got their point. And they aren't actually meddlig with them. The RCC is just voicing out their stand, just as what activists do. They are not imposing.
Quote from: pinoybrusko on July 12, 2010, 12:50:12 PM
Quote from: carpediem on July 12, 2010, 12:25:02 PM
Naiinis ako every time the Church meddles. For example the recent one about sex education and the use of condom.
The Church hold strongly to its faith that artificial contraceptives is a big no no to them. Natural method is what they preferred, Counselling and others.
But that clearly does not work. The government has been applying that for decades, and look at the Philippines now, grossly overpopulated.
Quote from: carpediem on July 12, 2010, 02:08:45 PM
Quote from: pinoybrusko on July 12, 2010, 12:50:12 PM
Quote from: carpediem on July 12, 2010, 12:25:02 PM
Naiinis ako every time the Church meddles. For example the recent one about sex education and the use of condom.
The Church hold strongly to its faith that artificial contraceptives is a big no no to them. Natural method is what they preferred, Counselling and others.
But that clearly does not work. The government has been applying that for decades, and look at the Philippines now, grossly overpopulated.
Kasi nga walang Political will... takot na kastiguhin sila ng simbahan.. makakasira sa career nila yun na parang lalabas na sila'y masama diba?
^ Precisely. Kaya all politicians need to make "sipsip", to earn the blessing of the Catholic Church. Sa last election lang nga e makikita mo flip-flopping yung mga candidates sa stand nila kung saan may issue ang Church. Kapag hindi ka nagustuhan ng Church, or any religious group for that matter, huwag ka nang umasa na mananalo ka sa eleksyon.
Here we go again -
Catholic bishops: "We bishops from all over the country call on President Aquino to listen to the call of the Philippine Church that the former program of the government to promote a contraceptive mentality through education and medical practices is immoral and will not bring about a people that is God-fearing, holding on to the sacredness of sexuality, life and the family."
respect each one's views. but we also have to be practical.
church meaning the catholic church since it is the majority in our country + it is the one that speaks and influences a lot of people.
it should be ....
;D
It should be, but as angelo said, the church influences a lot of people. Almost 70 % of the population is Catholic.
Quote from: Mr.Yos0 on July 21, 2010, 12:33:29 AM
It should be, but as angelo said, the church influences a lot of people. Almost 70 % of the population is Catholic.
only our grandmothers, grandfathers and parents are more likely to be influenced but our generation is not ;D
Maybe this is one plus point for Noynoy, he supports options for birth control. Let us see how he stands by his conviction against the pressure from CBCP.
As usual, the Church has to meddle. Are they planning a "people power" too? ::)
Bishops threaten civil disobedience over RH bill
http://www.gmanews.tv/story/202186/bishops-threaten-civil-disobedience-over-rh-bill (http://www.gmanews.tv/story/202186/bishops-threaten-civil-disobedience-over-rh-bill)
the church should not instigate civil disobedience, again there is a separation of church and state.
let the church do its part in ensuring that although the government pushes for contraception the people under them would still have this value within themselves not to opt for artificial contraception
The church should know better that what they are doing is a form of black mailing..
- stating they will ex communicado Noy2x
- they will do civil disobedience
What are they trying to show us is not right, we have a freedom of choice and let the Church TRUST its people that they will follow what is right
That is if the church is sure that they instilled the proper values to its people
yap agree ako sa separation but at the same time okey din naman na naiparirinig ng simbahan ang boses nito just for stability sake
Voicing out their stand is ok, but they go too far too frequently.
What is that threatening of civil disobedience? Inciting riots? Excommunication? Do they think we are still in the Middle Ages? >:(
Quote from: carpediem on October 01, 2010, 01:33:46 AM
Voicing out their stand is ok, but they go too far too frequently.
What is that threatening of civil disobedience? Inciting riots? Excommunication? Do they think we are still in the Middle Ages? >:(
i am for population control and a healthy reproductive repertoire. the church does not need to excommunicate me. i am volunteering to walk away from the church.
bilib ako sa ginawa ni Celdran sa Manila Cathedral issue ;D Napakatapang niya para gawin iyon in the middle of the mass :D
Quote from: pinoybrusko on October 02, 2010, 12:25:20 PM
bilib ako sa ginawa ni Celdran sa Manila Cathedral issue ;D Napakatapang niya para gawin iyon in the middle of the mass :D
matapang nga siya, pero i think disrespect ang ginawa niya kasi nasa middle ng 'holy mass' tas bigla kang gagawa ng ganung eksena?
its a wrong venue or maybe the wrong time to do it.
It might be the wrong way, but I guess it was effective - it generated a lot of publicity. He got even more fans because he was jailed.
Dapat ipasa na into law ang RH Bill. Most of us medical practitioners are for it. Dapat di na makialam ang simbahan. Let them remind and teach church-goers what their stand is, and not to meddle with what the government wants to do.
kaya yata nag-iingay si Oscar Cruz about jueteng dahil imbyerna na siya sa RH Bill. Just my opinion ;D
Quote from: ctan on October 02, 2010, 03:45:23 PM
Dapat ipasa na into law ang RH Bill. Most of us medical practitioners are for it. Dapat di na makialam ang simbahan. Let them remind and teach church-goers what their stand is, and not to meddle with what the government wants to do.
So agree
Ayoko mag-speculate. Hehehe. Basta ang sa akin, dapat umasenso na itong RH Bill na ito. Ang hihilig kasi ng mga Pinoy eh, ayun palobo population natin.
I realize that what drives the Philippine Laws are tenets of our religion. Laws exist because we all believe in the concept of good and bad. The objective of the law is to suppress what's bad, what's not orderly, what's not good. Thus, a true separation of Church and state is seemingly impossible. However, I do realize too that the government of the Church must be separate from the government of man. And maybe, this is what we all want -- the separation of the Church's and state's governments.
nakita ko lang...
The separation of Church and State shall be inviolable. (Article II, Section 6)
No law shall be made respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. The free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without discrimination or preference, shall forever be allowed. No religious test shall be required for the exercise of civil or political rights. (Article III, Section 5).
from the constitution of the philippines
RE: damaso, rizal dude: oo, sige, bastos yung ginawa nya. But I still think that it's brilliant.
RE: population of filipinos: marami kasing mga mahirap dati. dati wala pang global warming kaya malamig sa gabi. dahil mahirap sila, sa bahay kubo lang sila nakatira. kaya tuwing gabi, malamig... alam na ;D
Exactly. It is written in the Constitution. For the Church to interfere with government process is unconstitutional.
And didn't Jesus said, "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's"?
That means the Church is disobeying both the Constitution, and their own teachings.
Man, too much church meddling!
We should uphold the wall of separation of church and state.
^ Yup, I recently learned that the phrase "the wall of separation of church and state" was by Thomas Jefferson.
The authors of the US Constitution took great pains to make sure that there is clear separation of church and state. They made sure that the government that they established would be secular.
The Philippine Constitution which is primarily based on the US Constitution also specifically specifies the separation as mentioned above.
The current PCSO-CBCP scandal is proof that the separation of Church and State in the Philippines is bogus.
naalala ko, nagkaroon ng debate nung kolehiyo ako kung tama bang makialam ang simbahan sa gobyerno.
sa kasamaang palad, napunta ako sa "oo" kaya hindi ko nadepensa ng maayos ang aking panig. ehehe
sa kabilang banda. hindi naman talaga dapat makialam ang simbahan sa gobyerno. sana mas maintindihan ito ng mga nasa simbahan
basta ako. i am faithful but not religious.
hindi ako naniniwala sa mga religions
nagpapayaman lang ang mga namamahala jan ???
Did a little research. Here are the statements about religion and practice from the Constitution.
"The separation of Church and State shall be inviolable."
- Article 2, section 6 of the Philippine Constitution
"No law shall be made respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof... No religious test shall be required for the exercise of civil or political rights."
- Article 3, section 5 of the Philippine Constitution
"No public money or property shall be appropriated, applied, paid, or employed, directly or indirectly, for the use, benefit, or support of any sect, church, denomination, sectarian institution, or system of religion, or of any priest, preacher, minister, other religious teacher, or dignitary as such..."
- Article 6, section 29 of the Philippine Constitution
"One-half of the seats allocated to the party-list representatives shall be filled, as provided by law, by selection or election from ... sectors as may be provided by law, except the religious sector."
- Art. 6, section 5(2) of the Philippine Constitution
"Religious denominations and sects shall not be registered (as a political party, organization or coalition, by the Comelec)"
- Art. 9, C, section 2(5) of the Philippine Constitution
"Charitable institutions, churches and personages or convents appurtenant thereto, mosques, non-profit cemeteries, and all lands, buildings, and improvements, actually, directly, and exclusively used for religious, charitable, or educational purposes shall be exempt from taxation."
- Art. 6, section 28(3) of the Philippine Constitution
Check the last one. I think the Church should be taxed.
^ Exactly
And they will get donation money to compensate for the returned cars.
Wow. Just wow.
dapat kasi wag na makialam ang simbahan sa gobyerno e. wala rin namang naitutulong.