Leviticus 20:13:
If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
in tagalog:
Leviticus 18:22
Huwag kang sisiping sa lalake ng gaya sa babae: karumaldumal nga.
Leviticus 20:13
At kung ang isang lalake ay sumiping sa kapuwa lalake, na gaya ng pagsiping sa babae: ay kapuwa sila nagkasala ng karumaldumal: sila’y papatayin na walang pagsala: mabububo ang kanilang dugo sa kanila.
1Corinth 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
Eh di ibig sabihin ang mga bading na sumiping sa kapwa lalaki ay hindi maililigtas?
What's your take on this?
^ then how do we interpret it?..
nakita ko lang kasi iyan sa PEx Forum.. Import ko lang.. ;D
good. well said. lets wait for more opinions.. habang maghahanap ng topic.. ;D
it is clear that the actions done are being judged and not the sexual preference. This applies to all for men, women, gays or lesbians. From what I understand, this applies to all who are already married and then keep on sleeping with others. If you're marriage is bonded by the church, sleeping with your wife is not a sin, right? ;D
Quote from: Mr.Yos0 on July 26, 2010, 06:01:49 PM
Leviticus 20:13:
If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
in tagalog:
Leviticus 18:22
Huwag kang sisiping sa lalake ng gaya sa babae: karumaldumal nga.
Leviticus 20:13
At kung ang isang lalake ay sumiping sa kapuwa lalake, na gaya ng pagsiping sa babae: ay kapuwa sila nagkasala ng karumaldumal: sila'y papatayin na walang pagsala: mabububo ang kanilang dugo sa kanila.
1Corinth 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
Eh di ibig sabihin ang mga bading na sumiping sa kapwa lalaki ay hindi maililigtas?
What's your take on this?
wala akong nabasa na 'it applies only to married people' yung sala pagsiping sa kapwa lalake.
given the fact na alam nating mali talagang sumiping sa ibang babae kapag ika'y kasal o may asawa na.
Quote from: judE_Law on February 19, 2011, 11:09:29 PM
Quote from: Mr.Yos0 on July 26, 2010, 06:01:49 PM
Leviticus 20:13:
If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
in tagalog:
Leviticus 18:22
Huwag kang sisiping sa lalake ng gaya sa babae: karumaldumal nga.
Leviticus 20:13
At kung ang isang lalake ay sumiping sa kapuwa lalake, na gaya ng pagsiping sa babae: ay kapuwa sila nagkasala ng karumaldumal: sila'y papatayin na walang pagsala: mabububo ang kanilang dugo sa kanila.
1Corinth 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
Eh di ibig sabihin ang mga bading na sumiping sa kapwa lalaki ay hindi maililigtas?
What's your take on this?
wala akong nabasa na 'it applies only to married people' yung sala pagsiping sa kapwa lalake.
given the fact na alam nating mali talagang sumiping sa ibang babae kapag ika'y kasal o may asawa na.
pagsiping sa hinde kasal (single na babae at lalake) ay kasalanan sa Diyos pero hinde kasalanan sa batas ng tao dahil wala namang batas ukol dito. mas lalo na pag parehong babae o parehong lalake mgkasiping ;D
pagsiping sa ibang tao na may asawa ay kasalanan sa Diyos at kasalanan sa batas ng tao
Quote from: Mr.Yos0 on July 26, 2010, 06:01:49 PM
Leviticus 20:13:
If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
in tagalog:
Leviticus 18:22
Huwag kang sisiping sa lalake ng gaya sa babae: karumaldumal nga.
Leviticus 20:13
At kung ang isang lalake ay sumiping sa kapuwa lalake, na gaya ng pagsiping sa babae: ay kapuwa sila nagkasala ng karumaldumal: sila'y papatayin na walang pagsala: mabububo ang kanilang dugo sa kanila.
1Corinth 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
Eh di ibig sabihin ang mga bading na sumiping sa kapwa lalaki ay hindi maililigtas?
What's your take on this?
That is why there is mercy. :) undeserve favor.
Maraming factor kung bakit hindi masasave ang mga tao when the judgement day comes.
And the only way a person to be save is to accept Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour.
enjoy life to the fullest as long as wala kang tinatapakan o sinasaktan o inaagrabiyadong tao. Isa lang ang gusto ko ang mabuhay ng masaya ;D
God in His infinite goodness desires from the beginning of creation... man and woman....since my opinion was asked by this thread....at dahil sa bible mo rin hinugot ang mga basehan na yan....i think its hard to argue when we read those words....medyo may condemnation if you belong to the 3rd sex pero thats the normal thing and the standards set by God himself....hindi naman sinabing di mahal ng Diyos ang mga nasa 3rd sex its just that thats not the way it supposed to be.... ang kagandahan kasi whatever sin weve done ...its already paid for...we just have to repent and claim the righteousness that God offers.... again and again not one of us is a judge....so none of us can point a finger to one another ...all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God....in one way or the other...just have a pure love.....and i believe well find our way tyo a peaceful life and blessing
Ang sa akin dito, just read the book of ROMANS chapter 1. :-)
Sort of related.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3PyoUPcobA
3:52 is where it starts getting interesting.
Quote from: Mr.Yos0 on July 26, 2010, 06:01:49 PM
...Eh di ibig sabihin ang mga bading na sumiping sa kapwa lalaki ay hindi maililigtas?
What's your take on this?
oo
Quote from: carpediem on July 27, 2011, 01:57:09 PM
Sort of related.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3PyoUPcobA
3:52 is where it starts getting interesting.
i dont take sides here kasi pareho naman silang sarado.... grabe...mag away ba ng live sa national tv.... mwahahahaha parang movie lang....both of them dont understand what the love of God means.... whew napagod ako manood
based sa book of Romans chapter 1, if you don't have faith in God, you commit many sins, you will be punished
according to your intentions and actions. That is given I think.
but what if you believe and have faith in God and you do good things to others and what you do is love a person of the same sex which you shared on bed. Yung may love. Are you still going to be punished? There are couples of the same sex living a normal life na parang boy-girl couple din kulang lang ang kasal at blessing ng Church.
Quote from: pinoybrusko on August 14, 2011, 09:36:04 PM
based sa book of Romans chapter 1, if you don't have faith in God, you commit many sins, you will be punished
according to your intentions and actions. That is given I think.
but what if you believe and have faith in God and you do good things to others and what you do is love a person of the same sex which you shared on bed. Yung may love. Are you still going to be punished? There are couples of the same sex living a normal life na parang boy-girl couple din kulang lang ang kasal at blessing ng Church.
nothing personal here Brusk.. saw this in the Net, and i decided to post it.. medyo mahaba, pero worth reading... just to answer your questions..
How Can Love Be Wrong?That's the question many people ask when they hear Christians raise objections to same sex marriage. The question is often grounded in the experience or observation of genuine loving unions between people of the same sex. How can relationships that seem so good, so life-giving, be wrong?
Answering that question requires that we step back a bit and, by way of background, challenge some of the more prevalent arguments for same sex marriage promoted in both the media and, sadly, by some ordained church leaders.
Here are three of those arguments:
1. Science has demonstrated that some people experience homosexual desires that are linked to biological/genetic factors. Since these desires are natural they must originate with God.
2. The bible condemns manipulative and abusive same sex relationships. It does not address monogamous, loving, same sex relationships
3. God is love and all love is from God...so if two people love each other why would the church stand in the way of it?
Let's deal with these arguments in order:
It may well be, though the evidence is inconclusive, that some people are naturally drawn to others of the same sex through some biological/genetic factor. But that we may be born with an orientation toward a certain behavior does not mean that "God made us that way". People are born with orientations toward all kinds of behaviors—alcoholism, pedophilia, and, of course, heterosexual promiscuity to name just a few. Many behaviors have been argued to have some biological or genetic basis but we would not want to "bless" all of them.
The truth is, human beings are "fallen" by nature. (You might want to read through Romans 1:18-33; Romans 3:10-18 and Eph 2:1-3 at this point). That means that we are not who God originally created us to be. We are all born with an "orientation" away from God and toward the self. The way that orientation plays out is different for everyone. We should not be surprised that some are born with biological/genetic predispositions to all kinds of behaviors that are not healthy or right. The average human male is, by nature, oriented toward heterosexual promiscuity. Does that natural orientation mean that promiscuity is God's will? Should men sleep with whoever they want whenever they want because they were "born that way"?
No. The whole point of the Christian gospel is that though we are fallen and enslaved by sinful orientations, God in Jesus Christ has come to give us new life and to redeem us—not only to die in our place to pay the consequences for our sins but also to give us his own Holy Spirit to break free from the bondage to sin. Anyone who turns over his or her life to Christ is given God's own power to escape the bondage of sexual sin or alcoholism or any other enslaving orientation or addiction.
The question then becomes: is homosexual behavior something people must turn from and ask God to heal or is it something that God wants to bless?
The answer to that question, Christians believe, is to be found in the bible. Here are some of the texts that address homosexuality directly:
Leviticus 18:22 "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination."
Romans 1:24-27 (As a result of the disobedience of humanity) "Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error."
1 Corinthians 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality."
There are others, but the above texts are most clear.
But it is here that assumption 2 (above) comes into play. Some suggest that long term loving homosexual relationships are not addressed in scripture; that the bible writers knew nothing of them. Even a cursory glance at ancient Greco/Roman culture and literature will demonstrate that homosexual behavior and homosexual relationships, loving and otherwise, were commonplace. If Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles who wrote the clearest New Testament condemnations of homosexual behavior, knew nothing of them he would've had to be culturally obtuse.
But the extent to which Paul or the other human authors of the bible were familiar with various cultural manifestations of homosexuality is, in the end, irrelevant. What they write is clear and unambiguous. There is no distinction in scripture between "life-long loving unions" and abusive one-night stands. Homosexual behavior is condemned without regard to relational context or cultural setting. The physical act itself and the impulse that leads up to it is unequivocally condemned. Any attempt, therefore, to distinguish between types of homosexual relationships and argue that sex acts between two people of the same sex is good in one context and sinful in another is grounded in a fundamental misreading of the text which makes no such distinctions.
A hallmark of good reading (not just the bible but any book) is not to read into a text something that is not there. Good readers ground their interpretations in what the author himself has communicated. Those who seek to limit the biblical injunctions against homosexual behavior to pederasty, prostitution, and/or promiscuity impose a narrowness text that simply is not there.
So far we have seen that not all inborn desires and impulses are good and we have seen that scripture defines the homosexual impulse in particular as one that is linked to our fallen nature. It is not a good thing to be blessed but an enslavement that must be forgiven and healed.
Thankfully, we serve a God who loves sinners, who came to us himself in Jesus of Nazareth to live a life of obedience on our behalf and to die a sacrificial death to suffer the penalty for our sins. That means that there is no sin, no matter how horrific, that cannot be forgiven and no sinner who cannot be justified and redeemed. But first we must see ourselves as God sees us. We must recognize our own deep and desperate sinfulness, despair of ourselves, and surrender wholly and fully to Jesus Christ, trusting in his work instead of our own, his death in our place, and the power of his Resurrection to break the chains of sin and death in our lives.
This leads us to the final assumption (3 above). God is, indeed, "love" (1st John 4:8.). But divine love is not a "feeling" or "experience" but God's sacrificial decision to do good for another forever. This love, (called "agape" in the New Testament), defines the relationship that has always existed between Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It is out of this love that God created the cosmos and made human beings to enjoy fellowship with him forever. God set us in various communities—our families, friends, neighbors, churches, towns, cities, and nation—and to reflect and reveal his agape love to others.
Agape is a different sort of love than romantic/erotic love. In our culture we often define love by a feeling we have for another person rather than a decision to sacrifice ourselves for them. This is not to say that romantic/erotic love is not good. It is. God created romantic love too. But because we are fallen creatures our desires often carry us in the wrong direction. "Love" itself is good. But like any good thing it can be misdirected. Water gives life to all things on earth. But water misdirected, water that overflows the riverbank or breaks through the dike is deadly. The same is true for love. As the scriptures above make clear, erotic/romantic love between two people of the same sex is a love that is misdirected. God gave human beings erotic/romantic love to be enjoyed in the context of marriage between a man and a woman. He did that both for the purpose of carrying on the human race and to bind husband and wife together as one flesh in such a way that their union would be a living sermon—a picture of the love between Christ and his Church.
So while we cannot doubt the evident depth and sincerity of romantic/erotic love between two people of the same sex, we can and should recognize that if followed and indulged it drives people further away from the healing love of Jesus Christ and further into the darkness and slavery of sin. That is why the church, when confronting the cultural push toward homosexual license, must at all times and in all places uphold and proclaim the twofold truth that sexual acts between two people of the same sex is sin and that God loves sinners and sent his Son to save them.
May tanong sana ako. Pero ayoko maging graphic in description
moral gymnastics
another question, if a man controls himself to have sex with the same sex because of what is written in the Scriptures that it is a sin then what makes of him if he doesn't have any attraction or love over the women. He married a woman just to portray a normal couple have, but deep inside he is lying to himself, right?.
What if he doesn't marry at all since he knows he is just lying to himself and to the woman he will marry. What makes of him? A bored single man who doesn't love anyone because he will commit a sin. strange isn't it, but its the fact of life.
Quote from: pinoybrusko on August 15, 2011, 11:58:43 AM
another question, if a man controls himself to have sex with the same sex because of what is written in the Scriptures that it is a sin then what makes of him if he doesn't have any attraction or love over the women. He married a woman just to portray a normal couple have, but deep inside he is lying to himself, right?.
What if he doesn't marry at all since he knows he is just lying to himself and to the woman he will marry. What makes of him? A bored single man who doesn't love anyone because he will commit a sin. strange isn't it, but its the fact of life.
1 Corinthians 7
1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry.a
2But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.
3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband.
4The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife.
5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
6I say this as a concession, not as a command.
7I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
8Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.10To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband.
11But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.
12To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her.
13And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him.
14For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
15But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.
16How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?
17Nevertheless, each one should retain the place in life that the Lord assigned to him and to which God has called him. This is the rule I lay down in all the churches.
18Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised.
19Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.
20Each one should remain in the situation which he was in when God called him.
21Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so.
22For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman; similarly, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ's slave.
23You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men.
24Brothers, each man, as responsible to God, should remain in the situation God called him to.
25Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy.
26Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for you to remain as you are.
27Are you married? Do not seek a divorce.
Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife. 28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this. 29What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none;
30those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep;
31those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.
32 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34 and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35 I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.36If anyone thinks he is acting improperly toward the virgin he is engaged to, and if she is getting along in years and he feels he ought to marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get married.
37 But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin—this man also does the right thing. 38 So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does even better.39A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord.
40In my judgment, she is happier if she stays as she is—and I think that I too have the Spirit of God.
QuoteQuote from: judE_Law on August 15, 2011, 11:49:07 PM
8Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
27Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife. 28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.
32 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34 and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35 I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.
37 But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin—this man also does the right thing. 38 So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does even better.quote]
yes, if you stay unmarried you avoid the sins but at the end you are not happy :(. Just to kill the urge when you feel it, you just masturbate by yourself (as some says it is also a sin). You don't indulge into relationships since you only like relationships of the same sex since it is a sin, then if you enter into a relationship of the opposite sex, you are not happy and you're just lying to yourself and to her (it is a sin again). So, in short, people belonging to this should only chose to be priests since they can't marry and just devote their lives serving to the Lord. But, priesthood has a calling, its not given to everyone so ano pa ang options? nothing that I could think of. In any ways even in small ways, we can serve the Lord hinde lang ang maging pari.
I just thought na mahirap ang kalagayan ng belonging to third sex. They were outcasted in the society yet most of them are good and industrious at work, they are the laughingstock of co-workers, yet they don't do any harm. They try to live a normal life but other people would not let them. You will not understand this what I'm saying if you are not in our shoes.
Quote from: pinoybrusko on August 16, 2011, 11:41:28 AM
Quote from: judE_Law on August 15, 2011, 11:49:07 PM
8Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
27Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife. 28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.
32 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34 and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35 I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.
37 But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin—this man also does the right thing. 38 So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does even better.quote]
yes, if you stay unmarried you avoid the sins but at the end you are not happy :(. Just to kill the urge when you feel it, you just masturbate by yourself (as some says it is also a sin). You don't indulge into relationships since you only like relationships of the same sex since it is a sin, then if you enter into a relationship of the opposite sex, you are not happy and you're just lying to yourself and to her (it is a sin again). So, in short, people belonging to this should only chose to be priests since they can't marry and just devote their lives serving to the Lord. But, priesthood has a calling, its not given to everyone so ano pa ang options? nothing that I could think of. In any ways even in small ways, we can serve the Lord hinde lang ang maging pari.
I just thought na mahirap ang kalagayan ng belonging to third sex. They were outcasted in the society yet most of them are good and industrious at work, they are the laughingstock of co-workers, yet they don't do any harm. They try to live a normal life but other people would not let them. You will not understand this what I'm saying if you are not in our shoes.
hindi naman lahat ng tao, mababa ang tingin sa inyo.. naniniwala ako na makitid yung pag-iisip ng mga tao na ganyan kababaw ang tingin sa iba. pantay-pantay lahat tayo sa Diyos at pare-pareho tayo ng mga karapatan sa ating Batas..
yung mga pinost ko naman na sagot sa tanong mo eh yun naman ay may kinalaman sa relasyon mo sa Diyos at kung ano ang nakasaad sa Bibliya.
don't get me wrong ha.. am not telling you what to do.. nagpost lang ako ng sa tingin ko'y sagot sa ilang tanong mo. ;)
eh dito lang sa PGG obvious na obvious na marami makikitid ang utak :D what more in the more bigger outside society ;D
you posted verses in the Bible but it is not intended for gays and lesbians and there is no clear basis puro pahapyaw lang na words na binanggit sa mga passages.
That is the problem. The Bible does not have all the answers to your questions. And even if it seems to provide an answer, you do not know if it should be taken literally or symbolically/metaphorically.
C'mon guys. Do you believe in *every* *single* *word* your priests tell you or how they interpret the verses from the holy book?
Just try to answer the question of the thread-starter in a straightforward manner. Is being gay a sin? You can't.
(Most of) You would probably want to say "no it is not a sin", because you are already more educated and become more open-minded to accept people as they are, than the people 2000 years ago who wrote the Bible. You know that the times already changed, and so have our culture and our perception of the world around us. But those verses clearly say it is a sin. So what do you do? You try to pick other verses that might damp down the severity of the original verses. You try to interpret the verses yourself, even if other people (like your priests) do not agree with you (e.g. RH Bill, masturbation, pre-marital sex, divorce, etc etc etc). You try to put yourself in God's shoes, try to think if you are Him, and consider the issue, and say that since you are infinitely good, you will do such and such. In short, moral gymnastics/acrobatics.
Quote from: pinoybrusko on August 16, 2011, 04:39:36 PM
eh dito lang sa PGG obvious na obvious na marami makikitid ang utak :D what more in the more bigger outside society ;D
you posted verses in the Bible but it is not intended for gays and lesbians and there is no clear basis puro pahapyaw lang na words na binanggit sa mga passages.
here we go again.. throwing accusations...
from my previous post.. i hope nabasa niyo itong part na ito.
But the extent to which Paul or the other human authors of the bible were familiar with various cultural manifestations of homosexuality is, in the end, irrelevant. What they write is clear and unambiguous. There is no distinction in scripture between "life-long loving unions" and abusive one-night stands. Homosexual behavior is condemned without regard to relational context or cultural setting. The physical act itself and the impulse that leads up to it is unequivocally condemned. Any attempt, therefore, to distinguish between types of homosexual relationships and argue that sex acts between two people of the same sex is good in one context and sinful in another is grounded in a fundamental misreading of the text which makes no such distinctions.A hallmark of good reading (not just the bible but any book)
is not to read into a text something that is not there. Good readers ground their interpretations in what the author himself has communicated. Those who seek to limit the biblical injunctions against homosexual behavior to pederasty, prostitution, and/or promiscuity impose a narrowness text that simply is not there.So far we have seen that not all inborn desires and impulses are good and we have seen that scripture defines the homosexual impulse in particular as one that is linked to our fallen nature. It is not a good thing to be blessed but an enslavement that must be forgiven and healed.
Simple lang daw yung PB. Being gay is evil. Period.
Irrelevant daw kung well informed na mga authors ng Bible dati, kasi God's words are absolute. And you know, they couldn't be misinformed, could they? Of course not. They were the people chosen by God to author the Bible.
And oh, women were objects of society in their times, and slavery was perfectly ok.
The word "gay" means merry, exuberant, bright, lively. More recently it has been adopted by homosexuals. In its original use it did not have this double meaning. The clever adaptation of the word "gay" by homosexuals has robbed it of its pure meaning, thereby corrupting a once perfectly good word. I never use the word "gay" when referring to homosexuals. There are many bright, exuberant, merry people in this world who are not sexual perverts.....lets not abused this word...lets have peace...
hohum...
i am not disseminating hate speech here...
may i remind everyone that the content of my posts have been theological in nature and really not intended for anyone... not of the Christian/Catholic faith or interested in homosexuality and the Church.
I'm very sorry if you PB and Carpediem encountered anything but loving concern from anyone from my Church. Just because your personal beliefs do not coincide with what is written in the Bible, should not be cause for you to oppose them. I hope you can leave them be in peace.
The Church, Christians, does not condemn GLBT and works to "accept with respect, compassion, and sensitivity" all homosexuals. "Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition."
@joshgroban: oh josh, i'm just using the modern meaning of gay. the bible verses do mean homosexuality.
@jude: oh jude, i'm not offended. really. no sarcasm here. promise. after all, Christian theology is not intended for everyone (not everyone is destined to be saved). i know i'll go to hell. hohum.
now, i'm not offending anyone either. i'm just stating facts. that's how the Bible says it. quote mo nga e, "What they write is clear and unambiguous."
Quote from: judE_Law on August 16, 2011, 08:13:27 PM
So far we have seen that not all inborn desires and impulses are good and we have seen that scripture defines the homosexual impulse in particular as one that is linked to our fallen nature. It is not a good thing to be blessed but an enslavement that must be forgiven and healed.
eto ang conflict dito eh sabi kailangan i-heal. Sa ilang taon na nadiscover ko ito in early years, I prayed so hard that this feeling would be removed from me but its not. Sa tagal ng panahon, I don't like to have a sad life kasi life is given to us to enjoy it, right? For me, Hinde ito sakit na pwede pagalingin, it can be controlled by you na maging bato ka na lang para hinde ka magkasala :D
@Carpediem your not stating facts... your actually trying to discredit the Bible by telling PB that being gay is being evil. I cannot argue that it is evil but I can argue, without the Bible, that homosexuality is unnatural based upon human anatomy. If you look at the sexual reproductive organs of a male and a female it is apparent that the two go together. Though some would argue that the organs are not just for reproduction but also for pleasure and I would agree with this BUT as far as human reproduction is concerned the only rational and natural relationship that can occur is one that is heterosexual.
@PB - The only purposes of sexual intercourse are pleasure and procreation. Pleasure can be gained on ones own, procreation requires a man and a woman. While some people may jump in here and say it is also a means of showing affection, affection can also be shown and expressed in many other ways. Anatomically speaking sex between a man and a woman is the only logical combination, it is the only one that perpetuates the species. That's the best I can do without the Bible.
I'm a Catholic... if you want an honest answer from me, don't take away the only thing that makes me a Christian. You are asking a Christian whos faith is based off the God of Scripture. You set up a straw man argument; where you do not want the answer. To love a man is not wrong as we are called to love our neighbours. This love however is a form of righteous love that a man and a man can have.
i'll rest my case regarding this matter.. but i am happy to have a healthy conversation with you and Carpediem. sana ganito lagi sa PGGf.
Quote from: judE_Law on August 17, 2011, 12:53:03 AM
your not stating facts...
C'mon now, i'm not stating facts? Eto mga sinabi ko:
- Irrelevant daw kung well informed na mga authors ng Bible dati (this is from your post)
- God's words are absolute (from a Christian perspective. I will be amused if you say this is not a fact.)
- they (the authors) couldn't be misinformed, could they? (well this is my opinion, based on a Christian's perspective. I dare you say they were misinformed.)
- They were the people chosen by God to author the Bible. (again, based on a Christian's perspective.)
- women were objects of society in their times (fact)
- slavery was perfectly ok (fact)
- Being gay is evil. (quoting what you quoted again, "What they write is clear and unambiguous.")
Quote from: judE_Law on August 17, 2011, 12:53:03 AM
your actually trying to discredit the Bible by telling PB that being gay is being evil.
well I did not offer anything new. all of those are from the Bible - from the thread starter's verses, and your own quoted post.
Quote from: judE_Law on August 17, 2011, 12:53:03 AM
I cannot argue that it is evil but I can argue, without the Bible, that homosexuality is unnatural based upon human anatomy. If you look at the sexual reproductive organs of a male and a female it is apparent that the two go together. Though some would argue that the organs are not just for reproduction but also for pleasure and I would agree with this BUT as far as human reproduction is concerned the only rational and natural relationship that can occur is one that is heterosexual.
Agreed. But does doing something unnatural or out of its "original" intended purpose bad?
LOL I'm going to post something naughty...
You said
Quote from: judE_Law on August 17, 2011, 01:10:23 AM
The only purposes of sexual intercourse are pleasure and procreation. Pleasure can be gained on ones own, procreation requires a man and a woman. While some people may jump in here and say it is also a means of showing affection, affection can also be shown and expressed in many other ways. Anatomically speaking sex between a man and a woman is the only logical combination, it is the only one that perpetuates the species. That's the best I can do without the Bible.
The purposes of your tongue is eating, talking, and kissing. It can also be for
other pleasures, but those pleasures can be gained on one's own or through other ways. :P :P :P
what's your take on this?
"Atheism"
Quote from: judE_Law on August 17, 2011, 01:10:23 AM
@PB - The only purposes of sexual intercourse are pleasure and procreation. Pleasure can be gained on ones own, procreation requires a man and a woman. While some people may jump in here and say it is also a means of showing affection, affection can also be shown and expressed in many other ways. Anatomically speaking sex between a man and a woman is the only logical combination, it is the only one that perpetuates the species. That's the best I can do without the Bible.
I'm a Catholic... if you want an honest answer from me, don't take away the only thing that makes me a Christian. You are asking a Christian whos faith is based off the God of Scripture. You set up a straw man argument; where you do not want the answer. To love a man is not wrong as we are called to love our neighbours. This love however is a form of righteous love that a man and a man can have.
i'll rest my case regarding this matter.. but i am happy to have a healthy conversation with you and Carpediem. sana ganito lagi sa PGGf.
oo nga maganda may mga ganitong talakayan na napaguusapan pero parang nalalayo ka na sa usapan natin dito naisama mo na ang sexual intercourse. We are talking about people who are gays/lesbians here regardless kung active or non-active ang sex life. Part lang ang sexual intercourse sa usapin pero ang pagusapan natin yung main topic that being gay/lesbian is evil ba?
Quote from: pinoybrusko on August 17, 2011, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: judE_Law on August 17, 2011, 01:10:23 AM
@PB - The only purposes of sexual intercourse are pleasure and procreation. Pleasure can be gained on ones own, procreation requires a man and a woman. While some people may jump in here and say it is also a means of showing affection, affection can also be shown and expressed in many other ways. Anatomically speaking sex between a man and a woman is the only logical combination, it is the only one that perpetuates the species. That's the best I can do without the Bible.
I'm a Catholic... if you want an honest answer from me, don't take away the only thing that makes me a Christian. You are asking a Christian whos faith is based off the God of Scripture. You set up a straw man argument; where you do not want the answer. To love a man is not wrong as we are called to love our neighbours. This love however is a form of righteous love that a man and a man can have.
i'll rest my case regarding this matter.. but i am happy to have a healthy conversation with you and Carpediem. sana ganito lagi sa PGGf.
oo nga maganda may mga ganitong talakayan na napaguusapan pero parang nalalayo ka na sa usapan natin dito naisama mo na ang sexual intercourse. We are talking about people who are gays/lesbians here regardless kung active or non-active ang sex life. Part lang ang sexual intercourse sa usapin pero ang pagusapan natin yung main topic that being gay/lesbian is evil ba?
i already said that i rest my case regarding this matter... pero, ako, nalalayo sa usapan? if you will go back to your previous post.. your not asking if being gay is evil.. your askin if it is a sin.. o nagkakasala ba yung ganun.. i just post my opinion and what's written in the Bible...
besides, what i said is that...
I cannot argue that it is evil but I can argue, without the Bible, that homosexuality is unnatural based upon human anatomy. at doon pumasok yung sinasabi mo na sexual intercourse...
If you look at the sexual reproductive organs of a male and a female it is apparent that the two go together. Though some would argue that the organs are not just for reproduction but also for pleasure and I would agree with this BUT as far as human reproduction is concerned the only rational and natural relationship that can occur is one that is heterosexual.by the way, baka naman hindi ka nagtatanong, baka gusto mo lang depensahan yung situation that your in...
to me it is clear, wala akong sinasabing "being gay, is being evil", period.
ako naman eh nagtatanong lang dito wala akong kailangan i-defense kasi nga hinde nga malinaw kaya pinaguusapan. Gay is evil or a sin is pareho lang na masama. Yun ang main topic di ba.
you have posted what you know regarding sa Bible, its passages and verses pero hinde mo naman ma-explain ng maayos at malinaw. Sana hinde mo na lang i-pinost kung hinde mo rin naman ma-justify. kaya nga ako nagtatanong eh. Magtatanong ba ako kung alam ko na ang sagot? :D ;D you can answer based on your belife non-Bible based pero pinagyabang mo pa ang mga verses eh hinde mo naman ma-justify :)
practice what you preach (https://www.pinoyguyguide.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fserve.mysmiley.net%2Fevilgrin%2Fevilgrin0029.gif&hash=44ca9109a5982d289fc0572e757e1ebb8b4c295a)
Quote from: Lakandula on August 17, 2011, 03:42:37 PM
practice what you preach (https://www.pinoyguyguide.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fserve.mysmiley.net%2Fevilgrin%2Fevilgrin0029.gif&hash=44ca9109a5982d289fc0572e757e1ebb8b4c295a)
Aren't you gonna speak up about the topic Lakandula? (https://www.pinoyguyguide.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fserve.mysmiley.net%2Fevilgrin%2Fevilgrin0029.gif&hash=44ca9109a5982d289fc0572e757e1ebb8b4c295a)
Why change the topic? LOL
Ohhh, sinning is not evil. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ;D
Quote from: carpediem on August 17, 2011, 05:35:49 PM
Why change the topic? LOL
Ohhh, sinning is not evil. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ;D
OT: Naisip ko lang carpediem.. are you ---? Just a question.
Quote from: pinoybrusko on August 17, 2011, 03:26:07 PM
ako naman eh nagtatanong lang dito wala akong kailangan i-defense kasi nga hinde nga malinaw kaya pinaguusapan. Gay is evil or a sin is pareho lang na masama. Yun ang main topic di ba.
you have posted what you know regarding sa Bible, its passages and verses pero hinde mo naman ma-explain ng maayos at malinaw. Sana hinde mo na lang i-pinost kung hinde mo rin naman ma-justify. kaya nga ako nagtatanong eh. Magtatanong ba ako kung alam ko na ang sagot? :D ;D you can answer based on your belife non-Bible based pero pinagyabang mo pa ang mga verses eh hinde mo naman ma-justify :)
no, nagtatanong ka kasi may gusto kang marinig na sagot.. unfortunately, hindi yung sagot ko ang nais mong marinig.. well, seems like Carpediem has the answer to your question.. go!
@PB - Hwag mo na tanungin si jude, wala ka rin makukuha sa kanya. Or rather, ang makukuha mo lang ay yung mga sinabi ko, na pinost niya, na hindi mo daw nais marinig.
Being gay daw is a sin. But it is not evil (LOL). Kaya daw "go"! ;D
@solomon - Am I gay? Hmm, even if I were, it is not relevant to the discussion is it? :)
Quote from: carpediem on August 17, 2011, 08:29:30 PM
@solomon - Am I gay? Hmm, even if I were, it is not relevant to the discussion is it? :)
Pinaligoy mo pa e. Sagutin mo na lang ng diretso: yes or no? With all honesty please.
http://www.dennissy.com/the-gospel-and-homosexuality/
Quote from: mangkulas03 on August 17, 2011, 09:27:44 PM
http://www.dennissy.com/the-gospel-and-homosexuality/
interesting article mangkulas03!
i hope PB will find time to read it...
Quote from: solomon on August 17, 2011, 08:57:06 PM
Quote from: carpediem on August 17, 2011, 08:29:30 PM
@solomon - Am I gay? Hmm, even if I were, it is not relevant to the discussion is it? :)
Pinaligoy mo pa e. Sagutin mo na lang ng diretso: yes or no? With all honesty please.
E di mo kasi tinanong ng diretso, pablank-blank pa. Can't you say "gay"?
I actually already answered, "Even if I were". Well then kung gusto mo ng diretso - No.
Now going back to topic, I think we deserve a straight answer from you, of all the people in the forum, on the questions of the thread starter and PB.
PB, you are given the faculty of reason (by God if you want). Use it.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone (https://www.pinoyguyguide.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fserve.mysmiley.net%2Fevilgrin%2Fevilgrin0029.gif&hash=44ca9109a5982d289fc0572e757e1ebb8b4c295a)
This caught my attention, ano ba ang real issue? Being gay or yung pakikipag-relasyon sa same sex? Thanks.
ewan ko rin ba....parang lahat naman may point...di lang magtagpo mwahahaha
Quote from: mangkulas03 on August 17, 2011, 09:27:44 PM
http://www.dennissy.com/the-gospel-and-homosexuality/
yes, binasa ko. sabi dun it is a sin. So, if that is the case, parang tulad lang ng pagsisinungaling sa kapwa or pag-masturbate na minsan hinde mo talaga ma-kontrol ang urge and you do it. Meron pa nga white lies di ba? pero sin pa din. Hinde siya ganun kabigat na kasalanan tulad ng adultery, robbery, murder, etc.
Quote from: carpediem on August 18, 2011, 10:02:03 AM
PB, you are given the faculty of reason (by God if you want). Use it.
yes, I thought of free will. Pero less sex na ako para less sins na din :D as they said, being gay is already a sin kahit wala ka pang ginagawang masama
Quote from: vortex on August 18, 2011, 12:08:15 PM
This caught my attention, ano ba ang real issue? Being gay or yung pakikipag-relasyon sa same sex? Thanks.
Being gay. kaya yung babaeng mukhang gay or magsalitang bakla ay nagkasala na din :D
The bigoted institution is at it again:
CBCP wants anti-discrimination bill cleansed of provisions on gay rights (http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/106981/cbcp-wants-anti-discrimination-bill-cleansed-of-provisions-on-gay-rights)
Somebody remind them of separation of church and state.
^^Alam na :P
Quote from: Mr.Yos0 on July 26, 2010, 06:01:49 PM
Leviticus 20:13:
If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
in tagalog:
Leviticus 18:22
Huwag kang sisiping sa lalake ng gaya sa babae: karumaldumal nga.
Leviticus 20:13
At kung ang isang lalake ay sumiping sa kapuwa lalake, na gaya ng pagsiping sa babae: ay kapuwa sila nagkasala ng karumaldumal: sila'y papatayin na walang pagsala: mabububo ang kanilang dugo sa kanila.
1Corinth 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
Eh di ibig sabihin ang mga bading na sumiping sa kapwa lalaki ay hindi maililigtas?
What's your take on this?
Does this mean that its ok to be gay, just dont sleep with a man?
Quote from: solomon on December 08, 2011, 10:07:53 PM
^^Alam na :P
oh brother.. *facepalm*.. whatever
Quote from: masarapangspaghetti on December 08, 2011, 10:24:48 PM
Does this mean that its ok to be gay, just dont sleep with a man?
Interesting view. A loophole huh? But I wonder, will that be possible?
Again, just like what I said, moral gymnastics/acrobatics.
^ just wonder if "sleeping" is translated literally, or does it mean "desiring"?
^ You have to ask the experts on that, if it is to be interpreted literally or metaphorically. Also include other things like "7-day creation", "talking snake", "flood", "heaven", "hell", etc etc etc.
Mind you, the experts may not agree with each other.
i just read the first post and will comment from there...
basta hindi sila nakaka sira ng buhay ng ibang tao e ok lang cge do what they want...
besides...tao din naman gumawa ng bible
para saken ang interpretasyon ko dito ay hindi tungkol sa sexuality o pagiging gay o pagsiping sa kapwa lalaki kundi yung tungkol sa isa sa 10 commandments na "Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife"..simple lng..bawal makiapid sa ibang babae man o sa same sex,yun din yun..mortal sin pa rin yun.. "adultery" is the root word..
ang sinasabing pagsiping sa kapwa lalaki ay representation lng..kasi tingin ko malalim ang mga sinasabi sa bible..at hindi yung literal na kung ano lng ang nakasulat..parang lahat may hidden meaning/may double meaning..
Quote from: masarapangspaghetti on December 08, 2011, 10:46:36 PM
^ just wonder if "sleeping" is translated literally, or does it mean "desiring"?
desiring iyon kasi wala naman ako nakikitang masama na matulog na magkatabi ang parehong gender ;D
Quote from: masarapangspaghetti on December 08, 2011, 10:24:48 PM
Quote from: Mr.Yos0 on July 26, 2010, 06:01:49 PM
Leviticus 20:13:
If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
in tagalog:
Leviticus 18:22
Huwag kang sisiping sa lalake ng gaya sa babae: karumaldumal nga.
Leviticus 20:13
At kung ang isang lalake ay sumiping sa kapuwa lalake, na gaya ng pagsiping sa babae: ay kapuwa sila nagkasala ng karumaldumal: sila'y papatayin na walang pagsala: mabububo ang kanilang dugo sa kanila.
1Corinth 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
Eh di ibig sabihin ang mga bading na sumiping sa kapwa lalaki ay hindi maililigtas?
What's your take on this?
Does this mean that its ok to be gay, just dont sleep with a man?
being gay is not a choice, it is there from the start and you just realize it when you are growing up. So hinde kasalanan ang maging gay kasi hinde mo ito ginusto na maging ganyan. Nagiging kasalananan siya if binabastos niyo ang church at doon pa kayo maglampungan at magsex sa simbahan as stated in the Bible kaya ginunaw ang Sodom at Gomorrah. Second, nagiging kasalanan siya if you are having sex with a married man na pwede kang kasuhan ng adultery. Third, if you do it in public kung san may nakakakitang ibang tao sa kahalayan ninyo.
Iba iba ang pananaw ng mga tao sa mga bakla, ito ay curse, sakit na pwede gumaling, parusa, etc. These people who chose the reasons I mentioned are those persons na makikitid ang mga utak. They judge people on what they hear and see and read in the news kaya nakikigaya na lang sila. Hinde nila alam mas religious pa ang mga ito, mas mababait, may malalawak na utak, mas matatalino kesa sa mga normal na tao na sinasabi nila na sila ang normal kasi tunay na lalake sila >:(
Una sa lahat, nang isinusulat ang Bible, wala ang mga salitang GAY, HOMOSEXUAL, at HETEROSEXUAL, at maging ang mga konsepto nito. Naging POLITICAL TERM na ito. [Sa mga konseptong ito kaya nagkaroon ng pagkakawatak-watak ang mga kalalakihan (non-struggler at struggler)]
Ang isyu na pinag-uusapan dito ay kung kasalanan ba at kung maliligtas ba ang nakikipagtalik sa kapareho niyang kasarian.
Kung ang Bible ang tatanungin, oo, kasalanan ito. TAKE NOTE, the ACT itself is a sin. Pero kung may pagsisisi sa anumang kasalanan at tinangap si Jesus, maliligtas.
Kahit sabihing "bakla" (political term) pa, LALAKING TUNAY pa rin iyan. Kasi dominante pa rin siya ng pagkalalake sa kanyang tauhan. Each person has maleness and femaleness, but ang nagdo-dominate sa mga may "lawit" ay pagkalalake pa rin.
This statement is in a Christian POV.