A MATTER OF FAITH

[niceguy1111]

like?

Hebrews 10: 10-14

10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest (which is Jesus) had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Sa Holy Mass..di ba may sinasabi "May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hand for the praise and glory of his name for the good and the good of all His church.." this pertains to the host or perhaps the cup also which is the body and blood of Christ or which is Christ Himself..ang sakin lang bakit kailangan isacrifice pa ulit? although not literally..pero based on dun sa sinasabi..parang ganun na din yun na inaalay pa ulit si Lord kay God..para sakin hindi na kailangan pa ulit isacrifice...sabi nga dun sa Bible na naka quote sa taas..si Jesus ay nasacrifice na ONCE at ito yung perfect sacrifice para sa kapakanan nating lahat...at based dun sa verse 11 kung babasahin mo po ulit..parang it pertains to the present tradition of the catholic mass na paulit ulit sinasacrifice si Lord which is not appropriate...if ever that verse does not pertain to Jesus but to a sacrifice such as animal, the concept is the same to the present tradition yun nga lang si Lord ang ginawang sacrifice or which could pertain the to the "Holy Sacrifice" of the mass..at turo pa ng simbahan na yung venial sins mo ay mapapatawad o mattake away dahil nga nagsimba ka at tinake mo yung host (which is the sacrifice based on "May the Lord accept...")..venial or mortal sin it is still a sin.......the big question is could God accept the sacrifice again and again and again? knowing that He already received Jesus in heaven, that Jesus is already sat in his right hand?..I don't think so...so perhaps blasphemy(sorry for the word) ang turo ng katoliko sa part ng mass na to..

i'm not a bible scholar or something..just based on my understanding of the verse in relation to mass
am I correct or not? 

[joshgroban]

actually di naman talaga inuulit as in sinasacrifice ulit ...sabi lang kasi ni Christ LUke 22: 19
New International Version (©2011)
And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."...it is in remembrance...

usuallly ang tao kailangang maremind lagi of what Christ did...every time we partake the body and blood... we remember His love for us...its a mystery na we have to accept by faith...Christ did his part ... and our part is to remember it always...

[niceguy1111]

no its not..inuulit talaga ng katolikong misa...the fact na may sinasabing "may the Lord accept the sacrifice......" it's the same thing although not literally but symbolically i guess....yes we need to be reminded of what Christ did...but of course it must be in an appropriate manner which is not contradicting not like what the catholic church is doing....how come it became a sacrifice? or the sacrificial victim/Lamb as stated on the mass knowing that Jesus "voluntarily" say that it is His body and blood? although for Him perhaps is a sacrifice that He made (pertaining to His saying "this is my body.....")which may be true ..but in the Bible there are no apostle or man saying they are the ones who offer it to the Lord..gets? because on my opinion, priests are just representatives of Christ not Christ themselves..they're just imitating Christ and therefore they should imitate Christ correctly.

[joshgroban]

its good that you are very vocal with your faith  ....but at the end of the day we will not be judge by our differences... or way of worshipping God... if we have love and respect to His creation.. we will find the salvation that we are aiming for... i always respect every detail of your observations....no love lost...

[niceguy1111]

thanks bro..i'm just torned now..minsan parang mahirap din na alam ko yung mga mali and yet i'm still here living as a catholic

[Lanchie]

[joshgroban]

yap ..tamaaa...

[joshgroban]

"But if God so arrays the grass in the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, how much more will He clothe you, O men of little faith! And do not seek what you shall eat, and what you shall drink, and do not keep worrying. For all these things the nations of the world eagerly seek; but your Father knows that you need these things. But seek for His kingdom and these things shall be added to you. Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom. Sell your possessions and give to charity; make your selves purses which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near, nor moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also"   LUKE 12 (vv. 28-34).

[jelo kid]

Ephesians 4:29  Stop letting every worthless (or, rotten) word proceed from your mouth, but instead speak some good words needed for edification in order that they might give grace to those who are hearing.

Every thought we indulge in, respond to by thinking more about it, every word we utter or write, every act we do contributes one way or the other. It either advances the cause of Jesus Christ or it gets in the way. There is no such thing as neutrality.

And realize, please, that Paul is not writing to leaders alone here but to the whole body of believers. His epistles were read to the gatherings of believers. In fact, those epistles were transported from area to area, so that all groups of believers, whichever city they were near had an opportunity to benefit from his teaching.

Hence, every one of us is expected to watch what we say to assure that what we say ministers to others, that it gives grace to others.

This means too that it is wise to watch it when you and I are tempted to slam a fellow believer. Disagree? Sure. Absolutely, when necessary.  But guard against denigrating an individual personally. If you feel a fellow believer is wrong, tell him or her in private—politely, warmly and with humility. But tell him. It's part of "giving grace." But don't with mistaken enthusiasm put him or her down.

We can do these things in obedience to the Lord. But daily, moment by moment, we can  only do all this well by living in active faith-dependance on the Holy Spirit's ongoing enablement.

May we walk daily by the Spirit of God and the leading of our Lord..

[jelo kid]

Blessed is anyone who endures temptation. Such a one has stood the test and will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him. (James 1:12 NRSV)
The most effective way for us to deal with temptation is to avoid it.
An old Indian legend sums up our situation: Many years ago, Indian braves would go away in solitude to prepare for manhood. One hiked into a beautiful valley, green with trees, bright with flowers. There, as he looked up at the surrounding mountains, he noticed one rugged peak, capped with dazzling snow. I will test myself against that mountain, he thought. He put on his buffalo-hide shirt, threw his blanket over his shoulders and set off to climb the pinnacle. When he reached the top, he stood on the rim of the world. He could see forever, and his heart swelled with pride. Then he heard a rustle at his feet. Looking down, he saw a snake. Before he could move, the snake spoke. "I am about to die," said the snake. "It is too cold for me up here, and there is no food. Put me under your shirt and take me down to the valley." "No," said the youth. "I know your kind. You are a rattlesnake. If I pick you up, you will bite, and your bite will kill me." "Not so," said the snake. "I will treat you differently. If you do this for me, I will not harm you."

The youth resisted awhile, but this was a very persuasive snake. At last the youth tucked it under his shirt and carried it down to the valley. There he laid it down gently. Suddenly the snake coiled, rattled and leaped, biting him on the leg. "But you promised," cried the youth. "You knew what I was when you picked me up," said the snake as it slithered away.

That is a powerful little parable. The snake could be a host of attractions forbidden by God and our good sense. The best protection to sin is avoidance.

Dear Jesus, help me avoid falling into the trap of sin. Please forgive me when I do. In your name, Amen.

[joshgroban]

amen...Jelo

[toperyo]

Reading this thread i was just reminded who i was,i remember i don't believe in God even though my family is a Catholic "Sagradong kandado or katoliko"
but honestly i don't convinced to believe,i don't even use the words hope,faith and some strengthening words that strengthens us in the middle of trials but then as the seasons goes by i met Jesus and He changed me, i got a faith,i got a hope and more, now i just relaying my everything on Him,not trusting on my self but on him.
Faith is not about us but faith is all about Christ.

[mervs]

like?

Hebrews 10: 10-14

10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest (which is Jesus) had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Sa Holy Mass..di ba may sinasabi "May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hand for the praise and glory of his name for the good and the good of all His church.." this pertains to the host or perhaps the cup also which is the body and blood of Christ or which is Christ Himself..ang sakin lang bakit kailangan isacrifice pa ulit? although not literally..pero based on dun sa sinasabi..parang ganun na din yun na inaalay pa ulit si Lord kay God..para sakin hindi na kailangan pa ulit isacrifice...sabi nga dun sa Bible na naka quote sa taas..si Jesus ay nasacrifice na ONCE at ito yung perfect sacrifice para sa kapakanan nating lahat...at based dun sa verse 11 kung babasahin mo po ulit..parang it pertains to the present tradition of the catholic mass na paulit ulit sinasacrifice si Lord which is not appropriate...if ever that verse does not pertain to Jesus but to a sacrifice such as animal, the concept is the same to the present tradition yun nga lang si Lord ang ginawang sacrifice or which could pertain the to the "Holy Sacrifice" of the mass..at turo pa ng simbahan na yung venial sins mo ay mapapatawad o mattake away dahil nga nagsimba ka at tinake mo yung host (which is the sacrifice based on "May the Lord accept...")..venial or mortal sin it is still a sin.......the big question is could God accept the sacrifice again and again and again? knowing that He already received Jesus in heaven, that Jesus is already sat in his right hand?..I don't think so...so perhaps blasphemy(sorry for the word) ang turo ng katoliko sa part ng mass na to..

i'm not a bible scholar or something..just based on my understanding of the verse in relation to mass
am I correct or not? 

@toperyo and @nice guy 1111

In respect to our separated Brothers and Sisters, I would like to share about our Catholic Faith and why does She celebrate the Eucharist. I may not be a priest or a biblical scholar, but in the best of my capability, I will try to explain this.

I will discuss the questions step by step:


1. Biblical basis of the Eucharist
- we celebrate the Eucharist, because Jesus said so. in the Last Supper Accounts, ( Mt. 26:6-28, Mk. 14:2-24, Lk. 2:19-20) which is said by the priest during the consecration, we recall how Jesus Himself took bread and wine, transformed it into His Body and Blood, and commanded His disciples to "do this in memory of Me" as a perpetual institution of the New Covenant.

Now, going back to the first century, crucifixions are common in the Jewish Environment. For an ordinary Jew, a crucifixion only meant a public execution of a criminal, shamed to death slowly. If Jesus was also crucified, by what means did the first Jewish Believers set His death apart from the other crucifixions? Simple. The Last Supper reveals the meaning of what happened in Good Friday. His Body was "given up for you" on the cross. His Blood "shed for the forgiveness of sins". This "bloody sacrifice" in Calvary is NEVER REPEATED" for it is only offered once and for all."

Let us go further to teh Book of hebrews 10:9-10, "Then [Jesus] says, "Behold, I come to do your will." He takes away the first to establish the second. By this "will," we have been consecrated through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." His establishment of the NEW COVENANT, ratified by His Blood on the Cross is the Once and for all Sacrifice. Going Back to the last supper, Jesus said that, "... This is the Blood of the New and ETERNAL COVENANT for the forgiveness of sins. Do this in memory of Me." So in the Eucharist, we do not repeat the sacrifice, as if Jesus is again nailed to the cross. Instead, we draw from the rich merits of that One Sacrifice and make it present, by the Power of the Holy Spirit, by transforming the Bread and Wine into His Body and Blood." Remember, the Last Supper was celebrated in the context of the Hebrew "PASSOVER". When they celebrate it, it is not as if the Angel of Death will pass again and slay anyone who is the firstborn and does not partake of the meal. No. it is the  "making present" of a past event into their midst, and thank God for the grace that they have received. They recall the Passover, as if they were the very ones who were on that Night in Goshen. Likewise, we Christians, particularly Catholics, do not see Christ nailed again on the cross like on that first Good Friday, but we "make present" that past event and make it our own, for by this, we are healed and forgiven. We believe that the Bloody Sacrifice at Calvary and the Unbloody Sacrifice of the Mass is One and the Same, for it is the One Sacrifice of the New Covenant, whom Jesus commanded His Church to celebrate "in His memory."

In the Apostolic Times, they too, together with the Early Church, celebrated the Eucharist in His Memory:

1 Cor. 5:8 -" Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth." - this is Jesus, the Bread of Life (unleavened) as St. Paul says

Acts 20:7- "On the first day of the week* when we gathered to break bread, Paul spoke to them because he was going to leave on the next day, and he kept on speaking until midnight."

1 Cor. 10:16-17 - "The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf." - the Eucharist is our sharing in Christ's very Body and Blood

1 Cor. 11:26-27 - "For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes. Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord." - the verses tell that "as often" so it means that the Early Church did celebrate the "breaking of the bread" on a regular basis, and as Sacred Tradition says, it is done on Sunday, in commemoration of Christ's Resurrection. If the Bread and Wine were just merely symbols, or just like plain ordinary bread and wine, then why would St. Paul says that whoever eats this "unworthily" is sinning? it is because it is not ordinary bread and wine alone, but the very Body and Blood of Jesus!

2. "May the Lord accept the sacrifice"

before we discuss it, let us get the whole text of it from the Order of Mass:

Priest: "Pray Brethren, that my sacrifice and yours may be acceptable to God, the Almighty Father."

people: "May the Lord accept the Sacrifice at your hands, for the praise and glory of His Name, for our good, and the good of all His Holy Church."

These responses are said in the part of the Mass that we call, "Offertory" or the "Preparation of the Gifts" it is the part wherein the people bring different goods to share among the Church members, especially the poor. In olden times, it was food, clothing, and bread and wine, from which a small portion is "set aside" for the Eucharistic Liturgy. This prayer was then known as the "secret", wherein the chosen bread and wine are set aside, to be consecrated as the Eucharist. The rest of the gifts are distributed to the poor. Nowadays, we offer money for the welfare of the poor.

This is how the Early Church, as we still do today, integrate their worship with the charity for the poor:
Acts :44-47
"They devoted themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to the communal life, to the breaking of the bread and to the prayers.z
43
Awe came upon everyone, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.a
44
All who believed were together and had all things in common
45
they would sell their property and possessions and divide them among all according to each one's need.
46
Every day they devoted themselves to meeting together in the temple area and to breaking bread in their homes. They ate their meals with exultation and sincerity of heart,
praising God and enjoying favor with all the people. And every day the Lord added to their number those who were being saved."

upon reading this, one will see the reason why we offer goods in the Mass. Moreover, we also offer our works, joys and sufferings, to be united with Christ's Sacrifice on the Altar. Now, it is said as "my and your sacrifice" this means, "my (priest's) sacrifice, is the Body and Blood of Jesus, whom he has power to transform, and "your (people's) sacrifice of goods, money for the poor's welfare. Therefore, the Sacrifice of Jesus is not repeated as it seems, but we lift up to God our "works, joys and sufferings, even our work and our produce "for the praise and glory of his name, for our good and the good of his Holy Church" uniting it with the One Sacrifice that is pleasing to the Father, which is the Eucharist!

for further learning, please listen to these:
steve ray talks about the Eucharist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3afP72VB22M

scott hahn talks about the Eucharist in the Bible.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfGw8G9P4_Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ3goNXz8Jg

I hope this helps you grow in faith, and in deeper love for the Eucharist!

[mervs]

St. Thomas Aquinas, coins this great Mystery into song, which we sing during Corpus Christi and Eucharistic expostion! (an english translation is provided)

PANGE LINGUA!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnrOwiYqTcc

[mervs]

"For from the rising of the sun even to its setting, My name will be great among the nations, and in every place incense is going to be offered to My name, and a grain offering that is pure; for My name will be great among the nations," says the LORD of hosts."- malachi 1:11

The Pure sacrifice offered from sun up to sun down is the Eucharist